ItAint,

That is a very informative article - one that I would like to use in another forum, if you don't mind.

But I have a really silly question for you first. How does one copy and paste from a PDF file?

ItAintEazy,

Remember the same type of study the Clinton administration conducted as support for Affirmative Action. There were great disparities in the hiring of EQUALLY qualified potential employees. The great black loyalists and the whites in denial/refusal always remain eerily silent when data like this is presented....unlike when they adamantly defend the status quo......

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make em drink it (I love when those adages ring true)...if it has not thirst. Consequently, they do not thirst for truth and will not consume it when you bring it to them... or them to it.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((
Noah The African in America

One thing that a study such as yours should include (if you could ever get the evidence) is also the fact that whites appear to have less criminal records because of how some of their cases are treated, for example, the parents of a white youthful offender (you can be a youthful offender all the way up to age 25 depending on the crime, etc.) can meet with the judge in chambers and show proof that they have the means and capability to afford the "treatment" and treatment facility that their child needs (because of course, if he's white he must be suffering from some mental illness or disorder in order to commit a crime) and the judge, at his own discretions can come to a determination that this offender does need counseling, treatment, etc., and its better that the parents pay out of their pocket than for the state to pay for housing the offender --this is all legal. The youthful African American offender would not be afforded (would probably be told that this does not happen) this option and it is likely that his parents cannot afford the counseling and treatment facility that he needs. Also, a lot of people do not know that you can have at least one criminal record expunged from your record (any age offender). So a lot of whites know the ways around a criminal record showing on their records or around all of the record showing in the first place. I do agree with all that you have said regarding whites being more likely than AA to be hired with a criminal record, but I do believe that it is time that AA come together and find a way to equalize the criminal justice system/process. The criminal justice system is now an intigrite part of the racist propaganda machine. If they can continue to show that nearly all of America's prisons are predominately black, then that is all the justification Americans and people from all over the world need to see, i.e., it must be evidence that it is primarily blacks committing crime in America. It seems that even other African American do not see the big picture regarding crime, punishment and criminal records in this country. The same percentage of people do the same things, commit the same crimes, yet the majority of the prisons are predominately black. What no one seems to notice is that if you look for something in only one place, that is where you will likely find it. More blacks wind up with criminal records than whites also because blacks basically live under serveillance in this country by the police and average citizens. For example, there is just as many drugs in a predominately white community as there are in a predominately black community, but in the black community police cruse the area constantly, stop cars more often and randomly, stop young black males to search their cars, search their pockets,tell them to take their shoes off to be searched, etc. This is not the case in the white community where young white males are riding in their cars with drugs on them or walking through the community with drugs on them. So, while we should be concerned with their being a disparity in hiring black/white with a criminal records, I think we should be more outraged that AA is more likely to even have a criminal record in the first place that whites due to unequal treatment and tactics by law enforcement and the criminal justice system (oh, by they way that start to prime our child for the "system" at a early age by criminalizing adolesant behavior through the school system and unwarranted juvenile court cases)

.....and then off WE go to fight THEIR wars over THERE, when WE have OUR own WAR over here and have for 400 years. Why is that????????? Nothing really changes that much for us does it? Still the same old disrespect, hatred, etc., etc. We love this stuff don't we??

quote:

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Originally posted by vdiamond:
How does one copy and paste from a PDF file?

---

VDiamond,

In the adobe acrobat reader, you should have a button with a "T" on it. That's the Text Selection Tool.

"Don't Call Me Buckwheat" reminds us that racial slurs are still flowing like sewer water through peoples' mouths.

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja

Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch

vdiamond:

There is a text button in the PDF window that has a "T" next to a perforated box. Then after you're done highlighting the info, click on the copy button on the same toolbar (button with two notebook papers.) By all means spread the word around.


Kev:

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about the Glass Ceiling Commission study that was supposed to prove "once and for all" that discrimination against blacks and other minorities are a real and serious issue. Too bad Bob Dole, one of the original spnsors of that study, savaged affirmative action during his presidential campaign, even after the findings were published.

So I'm afraid they the denialists don't go silent over this issue. They just willfully remain as ignorant as ever and punk on you for ever bringing up the subject. Believe me, I already posted the same info on white message boards.

Noah:

What? So you're just going to quit taking all that abuse from whites on message boards like I'm doing?

sunnubian:

Just reading your rant just outrages me about the current reality and even more about how whites just don't want to understand shit. I tell someone that even though whites make up 75 percent of the drug users, blacks make up 74 percent of those in jail, they just come up with some sick excuse like "you people shouldn't be selling on the streets" or something.

Norland:

Hey, haven't you heard? Blacks no longer fight in the armed forces, they just dig ditches. (Relax, in the end it's all bullshit)

Damn, beat me to it, Ric

Thanks, guys!

Thanks for the info, ItAin'tEasy!! You see, I could relax when it was only me going through school, but now, it's a different story. There's this 15 yr. old grand, to whom the recruiter's gonna step to next year, trying to recruit. That's what has me in a tizzy and his brother following. Body bags, coffins, mind addled from war atrocities??? That's what has me beside myself with worry. The country that doesn't like him at all, wants them to defend more of the same, for them??? God, help us all.

Itainteazy, I have debated with them numerous times.... good luck. For them, denial and or ignorance of the history and facts permeates. Even when presented with proof and evidence that they will acknowledge and accept, they will tell you:"well ok...but two wrongs do not make a right". Thus, any and all evidence presented does not justify as solution that involves targeting blacks in an equal and opposite way to undo the damage, for innocent whites will be discriminated against in the process. Consequently, their position preserves the status quo of white privilege and black disadvantage, for they have no "solution" to the discrimination but to just say its wrong.

I always tell them that the goal for me is not to end discrimination at this time, but rather, to promote the equality of discrimination so that the playing field is built on an even foundation of unfairness and not have blacks unfairly impeded by disproportionate unfairness. Thus, two wrongs to not make a right, but two negating wrongs do promote equilibrium and equality between the races, because they cancel out the effects of the other upon the races as a whole, if not on an individual bases.

Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn


("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((
Noah The African in America

It ain't easy,

With as many arrests as I have, thank God!

"Don't Call Me Buckwheat" reminds us that racial slurs are still flowing like sewer water through peoples' mouths.

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja

Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch

The Reality of it Will Prove, That Other Black People Have Also Contributed to the Unwarranted, Blatantly Illegal, Unjustified Jailing, Illegal Fines, Maiming, and/or Killing of Truly Innocent Black People, and/or the cruel or excessive persecution or prosecution of others for selfish financial gain, the Rampart Scandal, and similar activity that preceeded it, is indeed a part of this very wrong activity, which again is not all Caucasian America's doing!

Being Un-Ethical Must Be the Hot Ticket, Because Sleaze In Black America's Own Who Hold Positions of Leadership is Very Much Alive In the Black Community!

"Speak Up, Mr. Parks

August 27, 2003

Los Angeles City Councilman Bernard C. Parks, the former chief of the Police Department, has "15 or 20 reasons" for refusing to meet with a panel investigating the LAPD's Rampart corruption scandal, according to Bernard Parks Jr., the councilman's son and communications director. The councilman's office has yet to release those reasons, despite phone calls over two days requesting them. It's hard to imagine any that would justify such stonewalling.

It's easy to suggest some petty reasons, however, given the politics involved. The same mayor-appointed civilian Police Commission that in June created the Blue Ribbon Rampart Review Panel refused to renew Parks' contract as chief last year "” launching his entry into politics.

Civil rights attorney Connie Rice, appointed to lead the panel, openly faulted Parks when he was chief, saying he had not done enough to change the LAPD's insular culture; she did not support his reappointment. The idea for an independent review panel came from Chief William J. Bratton, whose actions inevitably invite comparisons to and sometimes imply criticism of his predecessor.

If Parks were a conspiracy buff, he might even view this newly launched investigation into the Rampart scandal, which happened under his watch, as an attempt by Mayor James K. Hahn to derail a Parks candidacy in the 2005 mayoral election. But the scandal itself, not to mention Rice's and other panel members' advocacy of police reform, predates the overt Hahn-Parks political rivalry, which began when Hahn opposed Parks' appointment to a second term as chief. By not cooperating, Parks ends up looking as if he has something to hide.

Surely Parks is above these kinds of games. Perhaps he questions whether another Rampart investigation is needed after four years and four earlier studies. Deadlines for criminal prosecutions have passed. That's why, rather than continuing to probe rogue cop Rafael Perez's allegations of beatings, planted evidence and unjustified shootings, Rice intends to look at how the LAPD handled them. Parks himself promised to deliver such an "after-action report" to the public while he was still chief. He had not yet done so when he was forced out of office.

The Rampart scandal has resulted in more than 100 overturned convictions. It has cost city taxpayers more than $40 million to settle claims by victims of police abuse, all aside from what it did to the LAPD's reputation and credibility.

The goal of the new Rampart panel is to learn how to avoid future scandals. That's one powerful reason for an elected city leader to cooperate."

Sincerely

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on August 27, 2003 at 11:48 PM.]

Noah:

You quote the response of European Americans (I assume) as "well ok...but two wrongs do not make a right". This suppose to be their "stopper" to your "argument". When I run into this insult, for that is what it is at this point in our social evolution, I reply stupidly, "But three lefts do."

The futility of reason being applied to any discussion of Americans of unknown African ancestry (I've got to come up with an acronym for that.) left me with nothing to offer my children as a defense. They went into the fray armed with being simply "Black."

They didn't have to face the burden of a criminal record. The system is designed to put them in prison. It is also structure to let the "few slip the noose." But typically only the European American has the grease to make it work.

I don't discussion the African American "condition" with Europeans. Those who want to understand, can't. The remainder won't.

I found the answer to be ancestral nationality. It stops all levels in their tracks.

PEACE

Jim Chester

You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.

James states: "I don't discuss the African American "condition" with Europeans. Those who want to understand, can't. The remainder won't."

It is impossible to completely understand something that one has never experienced. However, it is possible to point out facts (such as the above study) - which cannot be refuted.

Those who walk away speechless have been given something to think about. They will not admit you are right - but inside - they know it. It's too easy as a White person in this country to simply ignore facts that - not only do not affect us personally in a negative way - but actually benefit us. Why let us off the hook that easily?

I do feel that communication is highly beneficial in some instances.


Because I'd like to be completely up front - let me point out that I am a White female. I do not want you to feel that I have attempted to "swindle" you into a discussion.

Lofton, Oh heck. Never mind ...

vDiamond, I agree that trying to educate them is probably the best approach. But to be honest, most don't want to hear anything that doesn't conform to their reality. So when you hit them with facts, they ignore them. When you use logic, they answer with illogical assertions.

I, for one, am tired of trying to educate. (And that goes for self-hating Niggros, too.)

Well Kweli4Real,

"Lofton, Oh heck. Never mind ...

vDiamond, I agree that trying to educate them is probably the best approach. But to be honest, most don't want to hear anything that doesn't conform to their reality. So when you hit them with facts, they ignore them. When you use logic, they answer with illogical assertions.

I, for one, am tired of trying to educate. (And that goes for self-hating Niggros, too.)" by Kweli4Real

Again I could care less as to what you think of me, because you are not in regard an ingredient to my success. As for self-hating giving away their rights through gross stupidity Niggros, those who fit this description among the university educated of Black America, need to look in the mirror at themselves as being self hating or losers, considering the reality of who truly fits the description of self-hatred or total losers, as strongly evidenced by their own blatantly disgraceful, incompetent, inept, actions, which deprive the Black community of needed services, gainful employment opportunities, etc., to which the sole perpetrators are in fact some of the so-called university educated from within the Black community itself.

As For Self Hating Negroes, This Description Surely Applies to Some of the so-called University Edu-Ma-K-Ted of Black America Whose Acts of Blatant Incompetence Not Only Kill Off Their Own Means of Making a Lawful Living, But Also Kill The Prospect of Gainful Employment and/or Access to Medical Treatment to Many Other Black People Who Have No Other Option But to Remain In the Hood, Because Many Individuals Do Not Have the Financial Means to Move Elsewhere!

"King/Drew Plight Is Detailed
Educator blames the former surgery chief for the training program's loss of accreditation.

By Tracy Weber and Charles Ornstein
Times Staff Writers

August 27, 2003

The former head of surgery at Martin Luther King Jr./Drew Medical Center disobeyed repeated demands from his colleagues and an outside accrediting body to cease training more aspiring surgeons than he was allowed, according to the president of the medical school affiliated with the hospital.

As a direct result, the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education withdrew its approval for the surgical training program this month, forcing the Willowbrook hospital to shut it down, said Dr. Charles Francis, president of Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science. The university runs the 18 physician training programs at the hospital.

Francis' remarks Tuesday provide the first detailed explanation of how King/Drew antagonized the accrediting council to such a degree that the panel exercised its toughest sanction against the surgery program, forcing the hospital to find new placements at other institutions for two dozen trainees.

At their regular meeting Tuesday, Los Angeles County supervisors expressed alarm at King/Drew's predicament and openly worried that it might lose approval for all of its training programs.

These are "life and death issues for many of the patients I want to just raise the level of emergency," said Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky.

Accreditation of the radiology training program was revoked last year, and four other residency programs are either on probation or have received warnings. An overall review of King/ Drew's programs by the accrediting council begins Sept. 9.

Like the supervisors, Francis said he was concerned about how the surgery decision would affect the accrediting council's overall review.

"It certainly will not help," he said in an interview. "This is another nail. We already have a number of programs that are in trouble. That fact that this is a proposed withdrawal is not good."

Francis said King/Drew's former surgery chairman, Dr. Arthur Fleming, was warned three times by the accrediting council "” in October 2001, April 2002 and December 2002 "” not to train any more than the 38 residents. The hospital's own graduate medical education committee made the same demand.

Fleming, who was stripped of his administrative responsibilities last week, erred by accepting a full incoming class of residents even though he held back two upper-level residents who had academic problems, Francis said.

The accrediting body took unusually extreme action because the program already had been on probation for providing inadequate training.

"There were at least two or three times when it was conveyed to him either orally or in writing that his requests to temporarily increase the number of residents in the program was denied," said Francis, who is the highest-ranking official at the medical school.

Fleming would not discuss the situation, scolding a reporter who paged him Tuesday afternoon. "It is most inappropriate to page me while I'm in seeing a patient," he said before hanging up. He did not return repeated telephone calls afterward.

Dr. Thomas Garthwaite, director of the county Department of Health Services, said he had not heard Fleming's side of the story but felt that the information available to him was "pretty damning" and enough to strip Fleming of his administrative duties.

Earlier, at the supervisors' meeting, Garthwaite said the chances of keeping the overall training program after next month's review were "better than 50/50, but I'm no expert."

Yaroslavsky replied, "When I go into surgery and I ask the doctor, 'What are my chances of survival?' and he says, 'They're slightly better than 50/50,' that doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling."

The supervisor also questioned whether King/Drew could hook up with another teaching hospital such as those of UCLA or USC to help run its programs for the "short term or long term or both."

Garthwaite said the county plans to bring in outside leadership to assess the quality of the surgery department and perhaps consider a countywide training program that would include other medical schools.

During the supervisors' meeting, two King/Drew residents gave impassioned pleas for the supervisors to do what they could to save the program "” for themselves and the community.

"Most of the trauma that we receive and the emergency services, the patients are in critical condition and are not able to make it to the nearest hospital," said Dr. Marian Safaoui, who is in the final year of the five-year surgical residency program.

"We implore you to help us find a solution for this, because it's not only our lives and careers that have been affected, but also the people that we have dedicated our lives to serve."

Dr. Almaas Shaikh, a third-year resident, said she chose to attend USC's medical school and complete her residency program at King/Drew specifically to work with underserved populations.

"Who is going to take care of the patients who come through there?" Shaikh asked. "If you do not have a surgical residency in that hospital, you will be shutting down a very large portion of that hospital, and, unfortunately, a lot of people will suffer the impact of that decision."

Francis said the medical school would work hard to find new placements for residents when the training program was shut down. And officials plan to ask the accrediting council for a last-minute reprieve, although chances for success are considered slim.

Francis said it was an unfortunate ending to a program that "has successfully trained a generation of surgeons and provided trauma services for this community for many years."

Fleming "deserves some credit for that," Francis said."

Sincerely.

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on August 27, 2003 at 11:48 PM.]

Lofton,I can understand if you posed the problems you did and offered recommendations on what should be done differently. You seem to be a very miserable self-hating person that finds solace in the mistakes of others. Once again fella, a self-examination is in order.

Well Kevin41 and/or anyone else of similar mindset,

"Lofton,I can understand if you posed the problems you did and offered recommendations on what should be done differently. You seem to be a very miserable self-hating person that finds solace in the mistakes of others. Once again fella, a self-examination is in order." by Kevin41

Incompetence, sleaze, greed, being a total fool is extremely costly when such activity adversely impacts the lives of others. Thus your two cents worth of advice is meaningless considering this reality. I'm willing to wager in a big way, that the many individuals victimized by this activity, who face this music do not share your sentiments.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on August 28, 2003 at 10:27 PM.]

Kweli, you stated, "...most don't want to hear anything that doesn't conform to their reality. So when you hit them with facts, they ignore them. When you use logic, they answer with illogical assertions."

And then we see a live demonstration. (lol)

Hey. When you're right - you're right. But I I am thankful that some of the wonderful people in my life have taken the time to point certain things out to me.

quote:

---

And then we see a live demonstration. (lol)

---

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja

Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch

LOL

Lofton posted,

Well Kweli4Real,

"Lofton,I can understand if you posed the problems you did and offered recommendations on what should be done differently. You seem to be a very miserable self-hating person that finds solace in the mistakes of others. Once again fella, a self-examination is in order." by Kweli4Real



Lofton,

I posted that,not Kweli4Real...no one is saying that the problems you present are not relevant.....but you seem to celebrate black failure exclusively and never offer one word of advisement in terms of a solution......hell you even go out of your way to lie in order to make your points.....we have a backwoods racist azz presidential administration that is responsible for sooo much wrong that affects you and I both....and all you can do is rant and rave about what goes on in your hood.....man expand your vision and realize that there are bigger issues that need to be addressed, like the high black unemployment rate, incarceration rate and poverty rate........and that affects waaay more people than the issues you rant and rave about..start addressing issues in general and not just castigate black people as if they are the cause of the majority of the country's problems and you will be allot more credible.....I feel as if i'm talking to a brick wall though...i think you are too far gone to be reeled in........

It pleases me that I brought you here Vdiamond. I wonder what Lo would say to this? Haha, shame he is too subconsciously scared of being proven wrong. Unfortuneatly, most of the people at our P&P are debaters, not learners. They don't want to learn anything, they just want to debate. I find there is a big difference.

I wonder what Narayan will say? Do you think he shall try and distance himself from the issue?

Lofton, I ain't even said nuttin.

But if I had, it would have been something like, "Me thinks thou dost protest too much."

{Sorry all. I said I wouldn't go down that street.}

Thank you, Goshtoire.

I have found this to be one of the most informative sites I've visited on the net, although I enjoy reading more than posting while visiting.

As for Lo, he will not even respond to me at P & P. LoL I am just waiting for an opening to post portions of the study posted by ItAintEazy at P & P.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Noah The African:
Itainteazy, I have debated with them numerous times.... good luck. For them, denial and or ignorance of the history and facts permeates. Even when presented with proof and evidence that they will acknowledge and accept, they will tell you:"well ok...but two wrongs do not make a right". Thus, any and all evidence presented does not justify as solution that involves targeting blacks in an equal and opposite way to undo the damage, for innocent whites will be discriminated against in the process. Consequently, their position preserves the status quo of white privilege and black disadvantage, for they have no "solution" to the discrimination but to just say its wrong.

I always tell them that the goal for me is not to end discrimination at this time, but rather, to promote the equality of discrimination so that the playing field is built on an even foundation of unfairness and not have blacks unfairly impeded by disproportionate unfairness. Thus, two wrongs to not make a right, but two negating wrongs do promote equilibrium and equality between the races, because they cancel out the effects of the other upon the races as a whole, if not on an individual bases.

---

Seeing your reveal truths after truths to online whites in an urbane and patient way while enduring little else but vile verbat attacks and brickbats only puts me to shame.

Whenever I'm in the same situation, I would ALWAYS take the combative and unrepentantly vituperative tone with these white folks, calling them "punkass whiteboys", "sheetheads", "snakes" and any of the familiar invectives while accusing them (rightly) of not actually wanting racial equality. I don't know, seeing them stew in their own rank hypocracy every time I come around is just a cheap source of entertainment for me now. But now I see the usual suspects in this thread are going down your list, starting from numero uno in their feckless attempt to "address" this argument.

I say the only hope we have against such reptiles is to argue with them in the open and expose how vile and contrary they are. Either that, or forever bury the myth that white America is genuinly interested in racial justice.

And Lofton, are there some electric poles that needs the expertise of you high-school degree?

quote:

---

Originally posted by ItAintEazy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ricardomath:
It ain't easy,

With as many arrests as I have, thank God!

---

You snake-ass white devil! How DARE you take comfort in the fact that you are the protected race?!!

---

ItAintEasy,

Oh, I've learned to take advantage of any privilages that I can find!

"La vida te da sorpresas...
Sorpresas te da la vida...",
¡Ay, Dios!

Rubén Blades---Pedro Navaja

Plowshares Actions
The Nuclear Resister
School of the Americas Watch

Well Kevin41 and/or anyone else of similar disposition,

"I posted that,not Kweli4Real...no one is saying that the problems you present are not relevant.....but you seem to celebrate black failure exclusively and never offer one word of advisement in terms of a solution......hell you even go out of your way to lie in order to make your points.....we have a backwoods racist azz presidential administration that is responsible for sooo much wrong that affects you and I both....and all you can do is rant and rave about what goes on in your hood.....man expand your vision and realize that there are bigger issues that need to be addressed, like the high black unemployment rate, incarceration rate and poverty rate........and that affects waaay more people than the issues you rant and rave about..start addressing issues in general and not just castigate black people as if they are the cause of the majority of the country's problems and you will be allot more credible.....I feel as if i'm talking to a brick wall though...i think you are too far gone to be reeled in........" by Kevin41

Again, you cannot speak for anyone else but Kevin41. Heck, lack of competent representation, blatant atrocities on the part of criminal activity of government employees, combined with disgraceful actions of Black America's own elected officials, who play games when petitioned for redress for blatant criminal wrongdoing or civil tort violations on the part of a government seriously gone awry, have a great deal to do with the truly innocent of Black America ending up behind bars, having property taken from them without just cause, etc., which is definitely not some minor incident, or isolated set of scenarios considering the reality of the untold numbers of truly innocent Black men and women sentenced and/or fined without just cause.

Former Los Angeles City Councilman Nate Holden, Assemblyman Merv Dymally, Brentwood Burke, Los Angeles City Councilman Bernard Parks, former Assemblywoman Pat Moore, former Congressman Walter Tucker, Congresswoman Diane Watson, Assemblyman Herb Wesson, Carson City Councilman Daryl Sweeney, etc., etc., etc., are as disgraceful as they come. Whether you agree with this or not, you are outnumbered, because the masses within the community have lost respect for these individuals, so much so, that many choose not to exercise their right to vote at the polls by staying at home. Election after election, low voter turnout is nothing to brag about, or to use as a sign or symbol to infer that any large number of Black people have respect and admiration for individuals to which it is common knowledge have no intention to serve the best interests of the Black community, first and foremost. It is also common knowledge that many of Black elected leaders play games, are truly incompetent, and don't intend to serve the people of the district represented, as mandated by law, and sworn under oath of office.

Apparantly, Kevin41, you have lost touch with what truly goes on within the "Hood", place little value in respect for law yourself, and/or for that matter have little concern for any community to which the truly innocent lose property rights and/or personal freedom at the whim of corrupt government employees. Those who have faced the music have a very clear understanding of this very serious activity, which many times ruins a reputation, a career, the chance at any opportunity to gainful employment, can result in the truly innocent being maimed for life or even killed by rogue police officers, which in turn increases the likelihood of an individual returning to the penal system, increases the rate of unemployment within the Black communtity, maintains poverty within our community, and/or allows corrupt government employees the power of judge, jury, and/or executioner in the illegal incarceration and/or death of the truly innocent within the Black community. In terms of solutions, competent representation is the only feasable solution which will bring about equity in the form of "Equal Justice and Protection Under the Law", to correct the wrongs of a government seriously gone awry, which for some reason continues to escape the minds or be ignored by Black America's owned elected officials, many Black lawyers, and/or others in positions of responsibility.

Unlike Black Folks, Hispanics Support Those Who Prove Themselves Worthy to The Hispanic Community, Which Does Not Guarantee Votes to the Democratic Party, and/or Control by Any Political Party Over the Best Interests of the Latino Community!

"The Democrats Don't Have a Lock on Latinos
By Luis R. Farias and Scott Chavez
Luis R. Farias and Scott Chavez are officers with the Republican National Hispanic Assembly of Sacramento.

August 28, 2003

Here is a news flash: Being a Latino does not necessarily mean you are a Democrat. An increasing number of Latinos are supporting the recall, convinced that this populist movement will benefit them and the rest of California. Many signed the recall petition to make known their dissatisfaction with Gov. Gray Davis' incompetent leadership, lack of accountability and excessive allegiance to special-interest groups.

Latinos have traditionally voted for Democrats; some studies say two-thirds of Latino votes are cast for the party. Democratic leaders hope that if the recall is successful, Latino voters will help elect Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante to the governorship because he is a Democrat and a Latino. Some analysts have even suggested that Latinos will vote for Bustamante just because he is Latino. They are wrong.

This election is a mandate for change. It is a rejection of the failed policies of Davis, which are, in part, a failure shared by the Democratic leadership "” and Bustamante "” in California. There has been no action plan to help create and grow Latino businesses or to rescue education and students from failing schools. And our communities are falling apart at the seams "” all this on the Democrats' watch.

The Latino population in California will continue to grow and become an even more integral part of the state, thus playing a more decisive role in politics. Though the Democratic leadership operates under the assumption that upward economic mobility can be achieved through government handouts, Latino Americans want more than just government aid programs. They want to live successful and productive lives. No government program will make the American dream a reality for Latinos or other Californians. Opportunities for jobs, education and good health care will.

Since Davis and Bustamante took office, Californians have had to shoulder the burden of expensive and ineffective government programs, higher taxes, a failing educational system, an energy crisis, a workers' compensation crisis and a $38-billion budget shortfall. The Republican Party and Californian Latinos share a number of core values, such as the importance of family, personal responsibility, hard work, religious beliefs and leadership. Instead of appealing strictly to identity politics in wooing the Latino electorate, Republicans want to provide tangible opportunities such as tax cuts for small businesses and decreased government regulation.

If Bustamante is elected Oct. 7, the status quo will remain unaffected. Latinos will be no closer to achieving the American dream than they were with Davis. Taxes will be raised, government programs will be expanded and the pervasive influence of special-interest groups will continue.

California's next leader must govern the state with mind, soul and corazón, or heart, not a campaign checkbook."

Heck, An Intelligent Black Male or Female, be it Criminal or Otherwise, Would Not Put His or Herself in the Position to Lose Through Ignorance or Criminal Wrongdoing, Millions In Assets Previously Won for the Atrocities of Government Very Seriously Gone Awry.

"Jail, Rehab Ordered for Rodney King
By Lance Pugmire
Times Staff Writer

August 28, 2003

Rodney King, whose videotaped beating by police led to the 1992 Los Angeles riots, pleaded guilty Wednesday to driving under the influence and reckless driving in San Bernardino.

A San Bernardino Superior Court judge sentenced King to 120 days in jail, a $1,454 fine, three years' probation and drug and alcohol treatment.

King was charged in May after a Rialto police officer witnessed him driving about 100 mph and weaving through traffic on April 13. Before the officer began pursuit, King crashed through a fence and a tree, striking a San Bernardino home.

Blood tests revealed PCP in his system. He will undergo a three-month alcohol awareness program and a six-month drug rehabilitation program before jail.

"Doing a crime of this sort requires him to do time," San Bernardino County Deputy Dist. Atty. Jim McGee said. "Thankfully, no one but himself was injured."

King, who lives in Rialto, suffered a broken pelvis, body trauma and cuts and scratches.

King has had numerous encounters with the law. In 2001, he was sentenced to drug treatment for indecent exposure and being under the influence of PCP."

It serves Caucasian liberals in a ricardomath, and/or vdiamond well to mislead Black folks, because should Black people fall for the hype, slim chance exists that those who swallow the advice of misleading Caucasian liberals, will ever think for themselves, to pursue redress for the atrocities of government to make government pay for its wrongs. The amount of money paid out for claims such as a "Rampart Scandal" can result in millions of dollars in compensation for the atrocities of a government seriously gone awry. Such a sum in legal compensation can provide resources to reduce high unemployment or resolve other issues within the Black community, problems that only Black America can resolve. Caucasian America's solution is to place more police on the street, A.K.A. "Community Based Policing", build more penal institutions, increase the use or building of criminal court, facilities, and/or hide behind the incompetence of Black America's inept no good elected officials, to protect Caucasian America's financial interests, institutions, and/or, keep every other community but the Black community gainfully employed, to which the Black community will continue being the loser, in the event that we keep no good individuals in influentual positions of responsibility.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

P.S.

"And Lofton, are there some electric poles that needs the expertise of your high-school degree?" ItAintEasy

Just shows the degree of your intelligence, meaning you know very little about the electrical utility industry. Cable Splicers, Lineman, Industrial High Voltage Electricians earn an honest living, and are well paid for the risks taken. In many instances, these highly qualified individuals earn more than many individuals who hold a university degree, be it a Bachelors Degree, Masters, or otherwise. In addition those who are skilled in this craft must spend countless hours of intense training in a recognized apprenticeship, under the directives of the IBEW, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, and after gaining the experience, the valuable skills acquired can be utilized anywhere throughout the world. This craft leaves little room for incompetence because one small mistake can result in a very serious electrical burn, resulting in serious injury or death. Many journeymen go on to further their education to expand their horizons, to run building contracting businesses, etc.

You may think that you have belittled Michael Lofton, but again I could care less as to what you think of me, because you are not in anyway an ingredient to my success. Didn't derive a profit or acquire assets through greed, sleaze, and/or by being deceitful or unethical to cheat or steal from other Black people to rise above poverty, like many of the so-called university educated Black middle-class have done, to buy that beamer, fancy clothing, purchase a mansion in the hills, etc.

[This message was edited by Lofton on August 29, 2003 at 01:58 AM.]

Lofton posted,

Apparantly, Kevin41, you have lost touch with what truly goes on within the "Hood", place little value in respect for law yourself, and/or for that matter have little concern for any community to which the truly innocent lose property rights and/or personal freedom at the whim of corrupt government employees.

* apparently(spelling) Lofton you have lost your gotdamn mind ASSuming so much stupid schit on my behalf...and in the same strain, what in the hell makes you think you are an ingredient in the success of others? Many have gotten theirs the straight-up way and have done it very well.......despite racism and any other obstacle put in their way.......so save that schit for your PW buddies..you can finish rotting each other's minds.......

Well Kevin41

"* apparently(spelling) Lofton you have lost your gotdamn mind ASSuming so much stupid schit on my behalf...and in the same strain, what in the hell makes you think you are an ingredient in the success of others? Many have gotten theirs the straight-up way and have done it very well.......despite racism and any other obstacle put in their way.......so save that schit for your PW buddies..you can finish rotting each other's minds......."by Kevin41

There you go, you can only speak for Kevin41, and I'm very sane, to which there are other Black people of like mindset. As for rotting out the minds of others, considering the reality of the sewer like conditions of life within the Black community, the so-called university educated of Black America, and/or others are doing a very good job of not only rotting out the minds of young people but also destroying the entire Black community by their failure to be ethical, responsible, law abiding, respect the State and Federal Constitutions of government within the U.S., of good moral character, refrain from using profane language or other behavior very out of character for anyone in a position of leadership, etc., etc.

Many of these individuals as referenced have done more harm to negatively impact the positive growth of the Black community than all the years of "Jim Crowe", and any damage that can be attributed to the underclass, bar none. Again, I could care less as to what you think of me, and as for PW buddies, there are also other Black people who realize this, because just like Caucasian Flight, many of the Black middle class also make tracks to get away from the Black community rather than fall prey to the reality of what truly goes on within the Black community, as opposed to how one would wish things to be.

I know of countless individuals who have relocated rather than contend with replacing furniture, home electronic items worth hundreds in dollars, jewelry, money, other household items stolen from them by other Black people while they are at work earning an honest living. I know of several incidents outside of my own personal family experience where Black people with legitimate grievances for the wrongs of government have petitioned by U.S. certified mail, personal contact, telephone contact, etc., their elected representatives, in a "Brentwood Burke", former Los Angeles City Councilman Nate Holden, former Los Angeles City Councilman Marc Ridley Thomas, Congresswoman Diane Watson, former Congressman Julian Dixon, Assemblyman Merv Dymally, etc., only to be met with game playing, by their most direct elected representatives and/or the elected representatives staff members, who throw bonified petitions for redress in the dumster, etc., etc. But here again it is all "Caucasian America's" doing, even where it is a reality that Black people in positions of responsibility have been, and continue to be the greatest enemy to other Black people bar none. Should any future reply come from you, regarding this reality to the contrary, again I could care less as to what you think of me, and over and beyond members of PW, there are numerous other individuals who would also agree, because like myself, they have seen or been a victim of this foolishness themselves.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

P.S.

"So why don't you try to add some level of intellect and sophistication to your dialogue. Try looking at the root cause of situations and offer recommendations for rectifying them instead of sitting back like a whining biitch and just complaining.......get a life man, do something more with yourself and roll up your sleeves and get out there and make change happen. Spend your bitching time devoting effort, money and advice to those you resent so much. Give it a try, you'll do the world a favor and feel better about yourself at the same time. Quit thinking like a victim and become a do-er." by Kevin41

Better than that I intend to continue to distance myself from foolishness which is a huge step in the right direction. As far as advice is concerned, the same advice would also be more than sufficient for others to follow, rather than lose everything by following in the footsteps of a misfit. As far as success is concerned, again I'm on the roll. It is quite an accomplishment to move from the camp of being homeless, to better than average affluence. Other than my immediate family, my own effort, in addition, I credit my success to the opportunity provided to be gainfully employed by Caucasian America. Very little other than "drama" comes from the community of Black America, to which it is quite an accomplishment to avoid being misled or destroyed by:

A. incompetent Black elected officials.

B. blatantly unethical foster home providers from within the Black community.

C. deceitful by no good poverty pimping jack leg preachers.

D. Pompous university professors, and/or others whose words of wisdom in praise for misfits, amount to a barrage of excuses for activity that has no place in any constructive forum where adults exchange ideas, information, suggestions, solutions, etc.

It Is Doubtful That A No Good Former City Councilman Nate Holden, and/or any other Unethical Elected Official Will Remain in Office in Any Law Abiding Community, to Which Rules of Ethics, Obeying the Law, are Generally Meaningless in the Black Community, Because Within the Black Community Such Activity is Praised or Honored, While the No Good Public Servant Continues to Remain on the Dole!

[This message was edited by Lofton on August 29, 2003 at 07:15 PM.]

Kev, is that PW Buddies, or WP (White Power)?

I didn't read the whole article, but what I perused is very informative. I think it was a year or two ago, I was watching Dateline (I think). I forget the details, but the story was about a guy who had become wealthy with some endeavor or another that he had founded. He was white, and the basic story was that he had spent a good deal of time in jail for a serious crime (something along the lines of armed robbery). When he got out, he got a job for some company and then used what he learned on the job to do whatever he did on his own to become wealthy. The feature portrayed his story as a remarkable story of success in the face of failure and adversity. Personally, I was stuck at the "he got a job" part. They didn't elaborate at all on how he got the job, and I just couldn't see how a black person in his position could have used this guy's story to inspire him and work for him.

Clearly, Itainteazy's article confirms the suspicion of mine that I got from that feature.

Lofton,
You make really broad statements about black people that you really could not substantiate in its totality. Like any other race, black people have their progressive and non-progressive factions. There are many of us who are moving forward despite the condition your lame azz president has put the country in. You watch too much TV, limit yourself to your immediate surroundings and bask in black stereotypes for your own satisfaction. Black people are not above or below anything anyone else is. If you were more in tune with your race and not so gotdamn self-castigating then you would know that.

As so far as people moving on and out....of all races, that is their choice. In may instances, it has nothing to do with the people there. Hell, I left a great middle class community that is majority black, low crime, clean and quiet for the sake of my career aspirations. I have lived in the deserts, in Alaska and even in Russia and in ships on the ocean pursuing my career endeavors.....and that damn sure wasn't as good where i was raised....and as so far as you stating that black people have done more harm to themselves as Jim Crow......really displays what a fuucking fool you can sound like sometimes. Do some research and come up with a basis for an asinine dumb azz statement like that. If you would read more and bitch and whine less, you would know some things into the psychology of poverty that black peopel were systematically relegated into. Hell, whites do the same things without even having the same historical social barriers in front of them. The urban situations of violence and crime are all fostered by a lack of opportunities for black people in general. Look at the high unemployment, do you think black people are just lazy and do not want jobs and just want to steal? If you think so you as backwards as those dumb azz white southerners you court soo often. Why do you think large cities are full of nothing but poor blacks and mexicans and not poor whites? You need to read more Lofton...you approach things with a very low level, of intellect. you never look into the root cause of behavior....you just rant and rave like some backwoods redneck from the premise of "that is just how they are". You even tried to imply that undesirable behavior amongst blacks was genetic....and like the brother told you, you would get that dumb shit laughed right out of any academic forum you would espouse that bullshiit in.

So why don't you try to add some level of intellect and sophistication to your dialogue. Try looking at the root cause of situations and offer recommendations for rectifying them instead of sitting back like a whining biitch and just complaining.......get a life man, do something more with yourself and roll up your sleeves and get out there and make change happen. Spend your bitching time devoting effort, money and advice to those you resent so much. Give it a try, you'll do the world a favor and feel better about yourself at the same time. Quit thinking like a victim and become a do-er.


Kweli,

That is Protest Warrior....the board for backwoods racists that Lofty likes to go and degrade his people in. They love him because he is a cyber-minstrel man who displays his hatred for his race for all to see and enjoy.

It's kind of fascinating to see that people actually still even bother to read posts by Single-Issue-Obsessor #1, Lofton. Why not just read ONE of his posts, ever, and just remember it whenever you see a new one. He never says anything remotely different.

ItAintEazy post:

quote:

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Whenever I'm in the same situation, I would ALWAYS take the combative and unrepentantly vituperative tone with these white folks, calling them "punkass whiteboys", "sheetheads", "snakes" and any of the familiar invectives while accusing them (rightly) of not actually wanting racial equality.

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quote:

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I say the only hope we have against such reptiles is to argue with them in the open and expose how vile and contrary they are.

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Well ItAintEazy...That is just about the dumbest thing I've heard all week, congratulations, your actually working against what you really want.

quote:

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Originally posted by Goshtoire:
Well ItAintEazy...That is just about the dumbest thing I've heard all week, congratulations, your actually working against what you really want.

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Why don't you try this.

Spend some time discussing racial politics with whites online, get pilloried and dismissed in every concievable way possible, THEN come back here bringing your garbage