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Michael B. Moore
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14197 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 8:36 AM |
Let's take a look at the foundation of Constructive Feedback's ideology. This thread is in an effort to look at the ideas and not the person. Let's keep the focus there. Feel free to add and disagree wherever you feel inspired. CF) The heart of African American liberation efforts is resentment toward whites.Reality) No. The heart of African American liberation efforts is liberation. As has been noted eariler, if resentment and anger were more vital parts of the African American psyche, then wouldn't we demonstrate those feelings in more obvious ways? Would arguing about policy be the most natural way for black folks, who have endured what we have over hundreds of years, to show our "resentment"? CF) By lobbying government for programs that benefit us, like affirmative action, we place inordinate reliance on white Americans for our progress.
Reality) All groups petition government to create laws which benefit them. Do we question whether right-to-lifers are inappropriately looking to government to ban abortion? Do we ask the same questions regarding the NRA and gun rights, free speechers, etc.? Of course not. Government is the vehicle through which law is created. How else are we to interact with our government, and society, if not to also then interact with white America. This is not "dependence"; it's the reality of living in a largely white country and a country that is defined by a legal system and laws.
CF) Looking to government for help removes the onus from the African American community to look inward to see what we can do to solve our own problems.
Reality) There is no connection between our legal efforts and our efforts to increase personal accountability and productivity. Although they fit together, one has nothing to do with the other. On the other hand, efforts focused solely on personal aspects and not on structural barriers would have us merely swimming against an even stronger current of water upstream. It makes no sense. From day one of the African American liberation movement the focus has been on removing the shackles of discrimination, and acquiring the skills and capabilities to experience "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". How could it be anything but? Black leaders have embraced education and moral uplift and the strengthening of the black family and skills acquisition - FOR CENTRURIES - as keys to our success.
CF) African American leaders stifle diversity of political opinion within our community.
Reality) First, in this day and age of open and free communications, how could anyone be stifled talking about anything? (Whoever the censor is - they're sure doing a bad job with you!  ) Second, Bush is funding numerous black clergy which is stimulating more conservative dialogue within the community. For example, during the last presidential election, while there were a litany of serious national issues facing the nation and the African American community (i.e. Iraq, education, poverty, the budget defecit, the president's lying to America about the war, etc.) black clergy all over America (who had been "touched" by Bush's Faith Based Initiave effort) were talking about the horrors of . . . gay marriage! Furthermore, there are more conservative voices within the black community now than ever. No, the poor showing that black conservatives get within the African American community is a function of their bankrupt message and whitewashed agenda. When a true black conservative comes along - a conservative who uses conservative principles to advance a black agenda - no doubt - s/he will get attention and consideration. Until then, more of the same. Last edited: September 28, 2005 8:52 AM
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Huey
A1 · 4,212 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 at 11:14 AM
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 28, 2005 at 11:33 AM
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MY VERSION of your mischaracterizations: quote: CF) The heart of African American liberation efforts is resentment toward whites.
THERE IS A SET OF BLACK PEOPLE who claim the mantle of "the only viable Black Liberation Effort" who make heavy use of RESENTMENT about the past as their main force to "unite" Black people under their flag. THEY SPEND FAR MORE TIME focusing about the past than they do articulating and leading the masses toward a future that will be any different. "RESENTMENT" is not a sustainable foundation for a forward movement. quote:
CF) By lobbying government for programs that benefit us, like affirmative action, we place inordinate reliance on white Americans for our progress.
A MORE SOUND mechanism to sustain PERMANENT INDEPENDENCE is to attempt to generate the resources that you seek AS CLOSE TO HOME AS POSSIBLE. In doing so you will begin to control your own pace and destiny. KEEPING YOUR MONEY IN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY as much as possible rather than having it flow to Washington DC BEYOND WHAT IS NECESSARY TO RUN THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT means that you will have to LOBBY the government just like other people on your list. quote: Government is the vehicle through which law is created. How else are we to interact with our government, and society, if not to also then interact with white America.
Please find where I ever said that BLACK FOLKS WILL "NEVER HAVE TO INTERACT WITH WHITE FOLKS"? I gave you the example of LOCAL GOVERNMENT MODELS - A Homeowners assocation in which fees are collected for the common upkeep of the property. Everyone signs an agreement on how they will maintain their property up to certain specifications. This is for the common good. quote:
CF) Looking to government for help removes the onus from the African American community to look inward to see what we can do to solve our own problems.
Please tell me where I have ever said such a thing? I said that LACKING THE INFRASTRUCTURE, such as the example above, the community "outsources" the skill and PROCESSES that are developed within such an organization. I am not sure what field you are in professionally. I monitor how ALL AMERICANS will live with respect to telecommunications over the next 10 to 20 years. Folks are forming organizations that are NOW plotting out the means of communication that we all will be using in the future. They have a process for submitting competing visions, debating and agreeing upon the best of the proposals. THIS IS NOT A "WHITE THING" this is a MANAGEMENT AND CHANGE CONTROL thing. At the end of the day the "New Black Nation" is NOT GOING TO BE DEFINED by the array of melanated leaders at the helm - IT IS GOING TO BE JUDGED BY IT'S ABILITY TO PICK UP THE TRASH ON THE CURB ON TIME, PROVIDING CLEAN WATER AND KEEPING YOU SAFE IN YOUR HOME. Some of you all's concept of RADICALISM and REVOLUTIONARY action gets lost in your inability to understand that at the end of the day people, regardless of their race essentially want the same DAMNED thing. quote:
CF) African American leaders stifle diversity of political opinion within our community.
YUP. SOME so called leaders who seek POWER more than they care about EFFECTIVENESS make use of their knowledge of the sentiments of the crowd before them to silence critique of their platform. ULTIMATELY it cannot be left up to the MAN ON STAGE to call the shots. THE PEOPLE MUST BE ALLOWED TO HEAR ALL OF THE OPTIONS, make their choice AND MOST IMPORTANTLY - LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR CHOICE, [U]LEST THEY NOT CHANGE BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN LED TO BELIEVE THAT SOME EXTERNAL ENTITY IS THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF THEIR SHORTFALL AND WILL FOCUS ON THIS EXTERNAL ENTITY RATHER THAN PROCESS IMPROVEMENT (ie: teaching their new borns a culture that takes them to the next level) [/u]
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 28, 2005 at 11:34 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Huey:    Bravo! More to come, I hope.
Huey: Thanks for your detailed commentary. I always knew you were a "deep brother".
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Kweli4Real
A1 · 8,626 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 at 12:48 PM
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CF, serious question ... How old are you?
I ask because, IMHO, there's a certain naivete in your vision of how the world operates politically. IMHO, Much of your vision reminds me of the enthusiastic neophyte, "If we could just change the world, we could change the world."
This is not to say that some of your approaches to solutions are not valid. It just seems that your vision requires a complete overhaul of every system, political, communal, and individual, in order for them effective. And, I think we both agree that will not happen.
THERE IS A SET OF BLACK PEOPLE who claim the mantle of "the only viable Black Liberation Effort" who make heavy use of RESENTMENT about the past as their main force to "unite" Black people under their flag.s
Although I disagree with your choice of the word resentment, I agree that tradition Civil Rights activists use our collective past to unity and/or bring Black people into the fold. I see nothing wrong with that. It is something only the young and/or in denial cannot relate to. But if you do not hear the future message, it's because I stop listening. Every tradition CR activist envisions a future where all artificial, i.e., race-based barriers, are eliminated, so that Black people can succeed or fail on their own merit. Traditional CR activists believe that until these external barriers are removed, little of your vision of the future is possible.
A MORE SOUND mechanism to sustain PERMANENT INDEPENDENCE is to attempt to generate the resources that you seek AS CLOSE TO HOME AS POSSIBLE. In doing so you will begin to control your own pace and destiny...
Petitioning our government to support and spend our money on programs that benefit us is nothing to denigrate. In fact, we should encourage such activity as long as we pay taxes. And, we in the Black should be doubly engaged in light of the fact that we have a unique relationship with our government-that being our nearly century long tax-paying citizenship where we were systematically denied the rights of citizenship. Besides, our not petitioning for the use of our tax money will not mean we can use it closer to home, it'll just mean that others will use it and often to our detriment.
SOME so called leaders who seek POWER more than they care about EFFECTIVENESS make use of their knowledge of the sentiments of the crowd before them to silence critique of their platform.
It seems your answer is to silence the message that resonates in the people, in order that your whisper be heard. It would seem that if your message were strong, it would be impossible to silence or even shout down.
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Faheem
A1 · 2,023 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 at 12:50 PM
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quote: THERE IS A SET OF BLACK PEOPLE who claim the mantle of "the only viable Black Liberation Effort" who make heavy use of RESENTMENT about the past as their main force to "unite" Black people under their flag.
OK, Renaldo, it is time to play the game of being more specific.....I would like you to give me real world examples of this "SET OF BLACK PEOPLE" who use resentment at their main force to unite "Black People".
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Rowe
A1 · 5,453 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 at 4:21 PM
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September 28, 2005 at 5:05 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Constructive
THERE IS A SET OF BLACK PEOPLE who claim the mantle of "the only viable Black Liberation Effort" who make heavy use of RESENTMENT about the past as their main force to "unite" Black people under their flag.
Considering what African people in America and throughout the Diaspora have had to overcome, expressing a passive dissatisfaction with our circumstances would have gotten us nowhere. In fact, it is that anger and active dissatisfaction with how we are being treated that sustains to this very day. And I am so tired of folks, usually whites and their house negro supporters, who at every turn, try to tell US how WE should react to their unacceptable behavior. What's even more shocking is that they want us to feel humiliated for being an emotional and expressive people and for not accepting the lowly status to which they have assigned us. More importantly, if you are at all interested in our Liberation, the first lesson that must be learned is that no cultural advancement can be made without an historical frame of reference. If you examinine any well-united cultural group, Jews for example, you will notice that their motivation, consciousness, and strength derives from having an appreciation for where they come from and what they have had to endure to get there. Therefore, your characterization of those of us that do have an appreciation for History as being a bunch of self-deatists whose primary focus is to blame, resent, and depend on the white man reveals a very limited, not to mention understanding of what Black Advancement has been about.
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 28, 2005 at 4:36 PM
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quote: CF, serious question ... How old are you?
I ask because, IMHO, there's a certain naivete in your vision of how the world operates politically. IMHO, Much of your vision reminds me of the enthusiastic neophyte, "If we could just change the world, we could change the world."
Brother man I AM CLOSE TO 40 YEARS OLD!!! I am a STUDENT of PEOPLE and CULTURES. When I travel to another city rather than going SIGHT SEEING - I make note of THE PEOPLE. I drive through upscale communities AS WELL AS THE "BAD NEIGHBORHOODS" that some of my co-workers warn me about. Please don't take my message of HOW ONE SHOULD BE THINKING ON THE INSIDE with some naivete about the CHALLENGES THAT ONE IS INCLINED TO RUN UP AGAINST. I can ASSURE YOU MY BROTHER - a man who HAS NO PLAN is in worse shape than a man who has AS YOU SAY has what YOU BELIEVE TO BE A naive outlook. In my life I have witnessed too MANY BROTHERS who were KINGS OF THEIR DOMAINS (ex: with the ladies) but who had NO CLUE about that which was lurking outside of HIS LITTLE WORLD!! While in his OWN LITTLE WORLD he was "DA MAN!!!", able to dominate those who are attuned to HIS understanding that was common among that particular community. Step outside of THIS COMMUNITY and he sees the shortcomings of his ways, unable to compete. OFTEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN LOCKED UP FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME GO BACK TO THAT WHICH THEY ARE MOST COMFORTABLE WITH. The place where he was DA MAN. I assure you that all that I am doing is EXTRACTING samples of HUMAN BEHAVIOR with the goal of TRANSFORMING MY PEOPLE from the lull where too many of us find ourselves. UNFORTUNATELY I must do battle with those who in their own FUNDEMENTALISM can't see FOR THEIR OWN BLINDNESS and lack of vision that is beyond their immediate understanding. These same people believe that THEY ALONE possess the only "authentic Blackness". Please understand - WHEN I CRITICIZE THEM OR THEIR PLANS - I AM CRITICIZING WHAT I SEE AS A PERSPECTIVE ON BLACKNESS NOT THE ONLY AUTHENTIC REFERENCE ON BLACKNESS which they believe they carry for ALL OF US. (ie: Affirmative Action is a commonly agreed upon strategy BUT NOT THE ONLY STRATEGY.) SOME BLACK PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO BE QUESTIONED. With the way things work in the Black community where "the man on the street" has POWER to spread his opinion despite the FACTS that are before him - certain means of CAJOLING and VERBAL RIDICULE. All that I ask is that we PUT EVERY THING ON THE TABLE FOR INSPECTION. If you believe that YOU have the best strategy for Black folks why must certain tactics be used to suppress questions and criticism? As long as we continue to allow THE BULK OF THE BLAME to flow outward we will continue to focus OUTWARD for the ultimate solution. (Surely this will be dismissed as RHETORIC from the typical forces. Ultimately I am NOT TALKING TO THEM. I am talking to BLACK PEOPLE who KNOW THAT WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW AIN'T WORKING but who have not been given anything but the FALSE DICHOTOMIES that you are inclinded to hear from the Black Quasi-Socialist Progressive FUNDEMENTALISTS who dominate our communities.)
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Nmaginate
A1 · 12,097 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 at 5:32 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Faheem: quote: THERE IS A SET OF BLACK PEOPLE who claim the mantle of "the only viable Black Liberation Effort" who make heavy use of RESENTMENT about the past as their main force to "unite" Black people under their flag.
OK, Renaldo, it is time to play the game of being more specific.....I would like you to give me real world examples of this "SET OF BLACK PEOPLE" who use resentment at their main force to unite "Black People".
Faheem, he's still working on that one. He's been trying to get his thoughts straight for a while now. The Malcolm X thread, where he said that same BS, has him reeling... CF - can you tell me who discusses or even infers that "resentment" is any part of the civil rights agenda? Did Frederick Douglas talk about "resentment"? Did MLK talk about "resentment"? MX? Does Jesse Jackson talk about resentment? How about Nmaginate? Kevin41? Me? Where are you getting this junk from? THE QUESTION is about whether you can demonstrate whether the Agendas and/or Discourse of the Black Leaders NAMED (and/or alluded to) and the Black AA.org Posters NAMED who have made or demonstrated that:
RESENTMENT (of White People... or the Black Predicament)
is a staple of their Agenda or Discourse?
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Rowe
A1 · 5,453 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 at 5:52 PM
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September 28, 2005 at 6:14 PM
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CF, surely you don't think the reason you are receiving so many critical responses is because you alone have THE answer and everyone else is just "lost in the dark." There have been members before you that have joined this forum sharing the same ideas and enthusiasm that you have today, myself included. That is, before I realized that ending poverty, unemployment, illiteracy, alcoholism, drug addiction, teen pregnancy, and anything else that hinders underpriviledged minorities from getting ahead cannot be solved by simply instructing people to "go to college" and "make better choices." Once I entered into the education field, as a teacher, I soon realized that my simple reasoning needed a reality check, that everyone did NOT have two parents who can pay for their college education, that every child did NOT have the luxury of having grown up in a $600,000+ home, and to live among African Americans who are mostly physicians, judges, and high-ranking Washington D.C. goverment employees. Of course, some children can live in depressing environments, and by the grace of God, will leave these environments with their minds still in tact and positive goals to pursue. But for the masses of children, they are not able to sustain themselves in these kinds of enviroments, particularly if they are left to raise themselves. Therefore, we, as educators and caring community members, must offer these youngsters advice that goes far beyond the contrite advice of "Do The Right Thing" and "Say No To Drugs." We have to be armed and ready to give these kids more than self-rigteous judgement, pity, and berating insults against their backgrounds.
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 28, 2005 at 6:16 PM
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quote: Putting people down is NOT the way to positively influence people or get people to change.
SISTA ROWE: You see the harm in "putting people down" - which I don't believe that I am doing. I SEE THE GREATER HARM in communicating with these SAME PEOPLE and getting them riled up by REDIRECTING THEIR FOCUS on some external adversary as the source of their problem. You see - with my strategy I ASK THE PEOPLE TO CHANGE FOR THE BETTER. Establish some STANDARDS and work to have the masses of Black people to live up to it!! Other folks talk about the AMERICAN STANDARD OF LIVING and expect the US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO LIFT PEOPLE UP TO THIS STANDARD. In considering which is the better option to take you must ask yourself: 1) Which asks something OF THE PEOPLE and thus has the masses to make choices for their OWN best interest? 2) Which communicates a PURPOSE and a BUY in FROM THE PEOPLE, requiring skin in the game since THEY ARE THE PRIMARY BENEFICIARY OF SUCH A TRANSFORMATION? Please understand the CONTEXT of which we stand today. You talk about folks having the benefit of being raise in a family environment that has lead them to where they are today. I AGREE WITH YOU. However when Daniel Patrick Moynehan wrote his controversal report on the Black community he was sounding the alarm about Black single parenthood at 25%. TODAY WE ARE AT 70%. All of his wildest dreams of concern has more than come true! Please understand my view. There are TWO FRONTS ON THIS BATTLE - the Battle to keep the forces that are opposed to Black people bound to the US CONSTITUTION. And secondly and more importantly - THE BATTLE TO TRANSFORM THE BLACK COMMUNITY FROM WITHIN to a higher level of consciousness, having more of us operating in the context of a HIGHER PURPOSE. While some of our leaders and our community ways are fine tuned toward the FIRST FRONT......there as been great failure on the SECOND FRONT. My challenge on this board is to have folks address this ALL IMPORTANT "INTERIOR FRONT" that we are currently slipping at.
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Rowe
A1 · 5,453 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 at 6:21 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Nmaginate:
Can demonstrate whether the Agendas and/or Discourse of the Black Leaders NAMED (and/or alluded to) and the Black AA.org Posters NAMED who have made or demonstrated that:
RESENTMENT (of White People... or the Black Predicament)
Great question! But I've just spotted yet another thread CF has started, which undoubtedly is used to further explain his position. And I am NOT about to chase this dude all over this forum in an effort to get him to see reason. Besides, he's made up his mind: Majority of Black people are a bunch of complacent whiners and we need to stop blaming "Da white Man." So good luck! My patience has run out.
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 28, 2005 at 6:36 PM
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Well Rowe: If it is any comfort to you - I purchased the book that you have as your avitar.  I will read it right after I finish the Book by Jonathan Kozol in which he makes the case that an ALL BLACK SCHOOL is always going to be substandard and full of misery. Then I have Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" (or what ever the title is) I chose "Other People's Children" to read all the while having the "mental condition" that you and Nmaginate speak of.
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Rowe
A1 · 5,453 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 at 6:41 PM
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September 28, 2005 at 7:11 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Constructive
SISTA ROWE: You see - with my strategy I ASK THE PEOPLE TO CHANGE FOR THE BETTER. Establish some STANDARDS and work to have the masses of Black people to live up to it!
Dammit CF, who told you that I was a woman??? I bet it was Nmaginate no doubt! I'm going to get him. I don't really like for people to know that I'm a woman in the Political Issues Forum, especially men, because they tend to reply to women in a less aggressive manner, and I have noticed that the tone of your writing has changed since your discovery. Thus, I would like for you to respond to me in the same stern way that you responded prior to receiving information about my gender. In any event, I need to ask a quick question, then I have to go. Its getting late. Do you actually believe that minorities are not as successful as other groups because we "lack of standards!" C'mon, that observation is not fair. Besides, where in American society have you seen an example of a group become successful because they adhered to societal standards more consistently than other groups? And please, don't credit whites for doing this because WE ALL know they are far from being a morally consistent people. Also, there's this disturbing racist assumption, present in your argument, that Blacks keep themselves from progressing because "lacking standards" is a trait that happens to be unique to us, like there's just something about us that makes us more amoral than other groups. Brotha, that is an example of racist thinking. And please CF, don't tell me that your proposal for Black Advancement is based on antiquated racists beliefs about Black people.
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Rowe
A1 · 5,453 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 at 6:45 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Constructive
If it is any comfort to you - I purchased the book that you have as your avitar. I chose "Other People's Children" to read all the while having the "mental condition" that you and Nmaginate speak of.
Yes, that is comforting. Good, I'm glad you're reading it. Let me know what you think about the research discussed in the book when you finish reading. I'd like to see how your perspective about minority children changes after reading, that is, if it changes at all. If it doesn't, that's ok too; its still good reading.
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 28, 2005 at 7:16 PM
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quote: Do you actually believe that minorities are not as successful as other groups because we "lack of standards?!?!
Please show where I have ever said this? I DO believe that INTERNALLY the Black community has many issues that threaten us to the core BECAUSE THE CULTURE THAT CURRENTLY DOMINATES too many of our lives is working to PERPETUATE certain issues between our people. KNOWLEDGE OF HOW WE LOST OUR 'FUNCTIONAL CULTURE' that we lived under for thousands of years DOES NOT EQUATE TO REESTABLISHING IT. Second point - you need to make use of the CONSTRUCT that I have introduced - the INTERNAL BATTLE of Black folks and the EXTERNAL battle. You suggested that (I said) "Blacks were not as successful" as other races. You did not make the distinction of INTERNAL success and cohesion as a people verus overall societal "success" as measured by wealth and other measures referencing other groups. Your statement is too over generalizing and matches nothing that I have suggested. My view is that some of the critical problems that we face as a people are not going to change anytime soon until a culture to order the people and have more of us LIVING WITHIN A CERTAIN PURPOSE for our lives. Marcus Garvey was able to create and organization that mobilized Black people in such a way.
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Nmaginate
A1 · 12,097 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 at 7:32 PM
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quote: KNOWLEDGE OF HOW WE LOST OUR 'FUNCTIONAL CULTURE' that we lived under for thousands of years DOES NOT EQUATE TO REESTABLISHING IT.
CON-Feed... When was our "functional culture".... "lost"?
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 28, 2005 at 10:02 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Nmaginate:
When was our "functional culture".... "lost"?
Clearly the culture - and it was a VARIETY OF CULTURES throughout Africa which allowed Africans to survive for thousands of years, living off of the land FUNCTIONED to bring the people forth. OF COURSE - SLAVERY and COLONIALISM stripped the pepole of this culture and had them to act for the BEST INTERESTS of the EUROPEAN INVADERS and or THOSE WHO KIDNAPPED THEM AND HELD THEM UNJUSTLY IN SLAVERY for economic exploitation. Dude - WE DON'T AGREE ON THIS LOSS. It appears we disagree on the MEANS OF RESTORATION OF "A" FUNCTIONAL CULTURE. Notice I did not suggest to REVERT BACK to a culture that many of us would not even recognize and which doesn't reflect the realities of TODAY. There is the ability to adopt a culture that representes the current state of today, technology and all but which have a certain directed end. This could be establising an economic link by which countries populated by African ancestry promote themselves as a key trading bloc and they act as the primary source of aid for each other, bypassing the IMF and other "official structures" set up by the West. I am sure you will have more questions though Nmaginate.
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Kevin41
A1 · 5,903 Forum Posts
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September 28, 2005 at 11:15 PM
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quote: No, the poor showing that black conservatives get within the African American community is a function of their bankrupt message and whitewashed agenda. When a true black conservative comes along - a conservative who uses conservative principles to advance a black agenda - no doubt - s/he will get attention and consideration. Until then, more of the same.
**Profound as hell MBM.....I wonder what CF has to say about internal changes when every day hard-working successful and/or educated, professional, law-abiding blacks face discrimination, such as in hiring, lending and medical care.....now at what point is a successful, contributing to society black person supposed to look externally?..I use the successful, law-abiding black in this example because CF implies that only poor blacks and blacks who need a culture change face such obstacles and they are blaming their problems on others when they are the source of the problem themselves....What about blacks who are as hard-working and law-abiding as any white citizen of this country? Do THEY have the right to look externally if they are doing everything as correctly as anyone else but are still having problems in those areas?
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Huey
A1 · 4,212 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 1:02 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Constructive Feedback: quote: Originally posted by Huey: Bravo! More to come, I hope.
Huey: Thanks for your detailed commentary. I always knew you were a "deep brother".
I appreciate it, CF. The feeling is mutual.
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 29, 2005 at 3:14 AM
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quote: No, the poor showing that black conservatives get within the African American community is a function of their bankrupt message and whitewashed agenda. When a true black conservative comes along - a conservative who uses conservative principles to advance a black agenda - no doubt - s/he will get attention and consideration. Until then, more of the same.
MBM: Have we established what a BLACK CONSERVATIVE is for you to even make such a statement? It seems that the concept of a Black Conservative takes the shape of some type of "defense of American values" over racial considerations as I listen to you all. At the same time as I listen to the most RADICAL of all of you - despite the frequent condemnation of the entire American system from SOME OF YOU or the constant critique of American policy by most YOU ALL STILL KNOW WHERE HOME IS, failing to take advantage of the alternatives as many, many MELANATED PEOPLES FROM AROUND THE WORLD DO WHEN THEY CHOOSE TO COME TO AMERICA. The fact that on average, with the same skin color as you have, are able to come to this country and perform at a high level than many native Blacks and even go to elite schools to a greater percentage (Black in Ivy League schools are now mostly African or Caribbean direct ancestry) doesn't cause the type of INTROSPECTION that one would think, resulting in the alteration of the assumptions on racial obsticals that folks have. If REALITY acts as no sufficient FEEDBACK on ahhhhh REALITY then little can be done to change you.
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 29, 2005 at 3:29 AM
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quote: .I wonder what CF has to say about internal changes when every day hard-working successful and/or educated, professional, law-abiding blacks face discrimination, such as in hiring, lending and medical care.....now at what point is a successful, contributing to society black person supposed to look externally?..I use the successful, law-abiding black in this example because CF implies that only poor blacks and blacks who need a culture change face such obstacles and they are blaming their problems on others when they are the source of the problem themselves....What about blacks who are as hard-working and law-abiding as any white citizen of this country? Do THEY have the right to look externally if they are doing everything as correctly as anyone else but are still having problems in those areas?
KEVIN has this IMAGINARY reference that he is going to one day pass that FINAL LAW that gets rid of all RACIAL IMPACT ON ONE'S LIFE. Please note that he trashes Ward Connerly for his "Color Blind America" concept in which race is removed from consideration. Yet my friend Kevin believes that by adequate LAWS AND REGULATION and AGGRESSIVE GOVERNMENT we will one day rid the country of RACISM. Even in TOTALITARIAN CUBA racism by the Euro-Cuban dominated government against the Afro-Cuban majority is rampid, KEVIN holds out hope that when HE has his way THINGS WILL BE DIFFERENT. Kevin - when I mention FALSE DICHOTOMIES do you ever think that what YOU hope to acheive - Blacks NOT BEING impacted by the constructs of race is even possible? When you look even toward Africa - the race divisions shift to tribal or party divisions or class divisions. So my challenge to you is - PLEASE FIND ME A COUNTRY IN WHICH THERE IS NOT TYPE OF GROUP BASED behavior and power relationships. Then find out what DIFFERENT GROUPS do to compensate and achieve power. CERTAINLY you will find more of them formulating their own BANKS and JOB PRODUCING ENTITIES rather than looking toward their long time adversaries to "do them justice beyond what the basic constitition requires." You see Kevin I am really pointing at the tip of the iceberg of YOUR assumptions. It is clear that you are really more Ameri-centric than you lead on to being. You want to change America so that the national entity has adequate control over the lives and processes of all of us so that this RACIAL EQUALITY at the most grandular level is had. Now I think it would be fruitful to DECONSTRUCT YOUR ASSUMPTIONS. When the NEIGHBORHOOD TIPPING POINT for ALL WHITE FOLKS is when their community turns 42% DO YOU THINK THAT THEY HAVE AN INTENTION OF LIVING NEXT TO YOU KEVIN when they have a choice? This is NOT LIMITED TO CONSERVATIVE WHITES. The most liberal of whites who are YOUR FRIENDS as they enable your policies to take effect suffer from the same tendency. There is rampid racial discrimination among the Gay community, a community who is attempting to obtain greater societal rights. They can't even dispense it internally among their own kind. So Kevin between you and me which one of us have a more realistic set of assumptions? I state that the interests of GENETIC PERPETUATION will have the current power relationships maintained. The best that Black America can hope for is that the common denominator of the US Constitution be enforced and have OUR OWN INFRASTRUCTURE that we are free to CONSTRUCT be used to supply us with the balance of our needs. This means: Quality Schools, Jobs, Community Safety, Entertainment outlets. This is already the case in other groups as they look out for their own best interests. NO DOUBT THESE ARE THE SAME GROUPS THAT YOU SAY ARE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST BLACK FOLKS.
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Michael B. Moore
A1 · 14,197 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 5:03 AM
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September 29, 2005 at 5:26 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
Have we established what a BLACK CONSERVATIVE is for you to even make such a statement?
An African American who embraces conservative political principles to advance a uniquely African American political agenda. I think I said that though. I'm not surprised that you have no comment on the statement other than to bullshit about semantics.  quote: The fact that on average, with the same skin color as you have, are able to come to this country and perform at a high level than many native Blacks and even go to elite schools to a greater percentage (Black in Ivy League schools are now mostly African or Caribbean direct ancestry) doesn't cause the type of INTROSPECTION that one would think, resulting in the alteration of the assumptions on racial obsticals that folks have.
If you were more intimate with the issues you would realize that someone of African descent coming to America from someplace like Jamaica - which is a black country where black people have lived and succeeded for generations - has a very different experience base than does someone who has lived under the thumb of American racism and discrimination for 450 years. Only someone who believes that race is somehow an innate barrier to performance would suggest that just because one is black that they are naturally bound to perform at a low level. Why do you think we concern ourselves so deeply with context? It is the external reality that has muted so much of what African Americans experience and achieve. quote: If REALITY acts as no sufficient FEEDBACK on ahhhhh REALITY then little can be done to change you.
"You"? I thought it was "us"? 
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Michael B. Moore
A1 · 14,197 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 5:26 AM
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September 29, 2005 at 5:41 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
Please note that he trashes Ward Connerly for his "Color Blind America" concept in which race is removed from consideration. Yet my friend Kevin believes that by adequate LAWS AND REGULATION and AGGRESSIVE GOVERNMENT we will one day rid the country of RACISM.
Two points: 1) Affirmative action attempts to even a decidedly uneven playing field. Black people did not make the playing field uneven. Whites got to their position in this society largely by stealing it. Now they want to lock that lead in place (preserve/conserve) for as long as they can by removing any measures that might even things. They conveniently complain about giving opportunity to others - forgetting how they got what they have. Why would anyone concerned with African America support eliminating a program that is in their interests and endeavors to create an America where we all compete with equal opportunity for success? CF - how can you justify your position against equality? Do you disagree that white America got its lead fraudently? If not, how would you characterize slavery then? 2) We are a nation of laws. If we passively waited until public opinion supported anything then Africans would still be in chains here . Either you believe in justice, CF, or you don't. Since the law is the way to codify equality in this country, then the law is what needs to evolve. What about this do you disagree with? (btw - isn't it funny how you prod us to "do for self" EXCEPT when it is in regard to the law! ) You know, people adopt positions that, one way or the other, are in their self-interest. How does discouraging African Americans to change the law toward equality negaitvely impact your self-interest CF? Do you have an interest in there being plenty of 'wiggle room' with regard to discriminatory behavior? quote: Even in TOTALITARIAN CUBA racism by the Euro-Cuban dominated government against the Afro-Cuban majority is rampid, KEVIN holds out hope that when HE has his way THINGS WILL BE DIFFERENT.
Kevin - when I mention FALSE DICHOTOMIES do you ever think that what YOU hope to acheive - Blacks NOT BEING impacted by the constructs of race is even possible? When you look even toward Africa - the race divisions shift to tribal or party divisions or class divisions.
So my challenge to you is - PLEASE FIND ME A COUNTRY IN WHICH THERE IS NOT TYPE OF GROUP BASED behavior and power relationships.
I can't believe you are coming to a African American site attempting to have us just 'shut up be happy' with racism and discrimination because . . .well . . . that's the way the world goes round. Should we tell that to women too? Sexism is rampant in most cultures. STFU and get your ass back in the kitchen, bitch! Is that the attitude CF? You amaze me. Did our founders write that "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights - among these are life, liberty , and the pursuit of happiness"? Is this part of our nation's founding creed or not? Black folks didn't write that you know. YOU did. Live up to it. Also - mentioning Cuba and Africa is not relevant to this discussion. Those countries are not the United States of America. They do not live under the words that I quoted above. You're trying to have us to just be satisfied with our existence here because others throughout the world have it worse.  How patholigically self-serving and arrogant of you. Look in the mirror and see what YOU have to do to change yourself.  You are so afraid to face and challenge your own racism and inadequacies that instead you attack your victim. You beat your wife and tell her that she then has the nerve to be upset about it. You are absolutely hilarious CF.
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Noah The African
A1 · 4,184 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 6:54 AM
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Essentially, what I glean from CF proposal is that African America can exist as an independent sovereign entity within the interdependent economic and political construct that is America. His plan is less realistic because he ignores the interdependencies and power dynamics of that creates inertia to his proposition.
In an interdependent construct, as well as all other constructs, actions produce reactions. Thus, the action of blacks creating an economic multiplier effect via circulating our dollars in from the purchase of goods and services from other blacks will come at a loss for whites. Our consumption habits as black people primarily and disproportionately benefit white businesses. Hence, there will be a negative reaction from whites to the loss of black dollars and from there perception that black racism and discrimination against white business is the culprit.
Obviously CF does not understand the environment in which we exist in this nation or he is not thinking far enough ahead in his model. As CF noted, white racism will not ever completely go away because "isms" are part of human nature, the issue, however, is born from the degree there of. Consequently, CF does not reconcile the effect of his proposal on the degree of white racism that is released upon blacks.
High degree of white racism has not been cured; but rather, lay dormant waiting for the motive, means and opportunity to reappear. Currently, most racist have gone into the closet because society has managed to ostracize and taboo such thinking. They hide their true beliefs from others, as well as themselves, and have simply leaned to be "tolerant" of black folks. However, as soon as they see black folks starting to lift themselves up via black unity and blacks discriminating to the benefit of blacks, it restores the motive, means and the opportunity for whites to do the same thing. Consequently, with the power dynamics disproportionately in the favor of whites, white backlash and reenergized racism will negate any economic gains made.
This is why the fundamental problem that needs to be addressed is white racism and not black behaviorism. Even when blacks wanted to create and fund Africa Town, via city tax dollars, in 90% black Detroit.....the idea faced sharp resistance from the white community as well as other communities. Any plan where blacks are seen to be targeting and favoring blacks give whites the rationalization and excuse to target and favor whites. The difference in the discrimination is that blacks are trying to promote unity to reach equality while whites want to promote unity to preserve their superiority. Thus, there is huge moral difference in motives. Whites don't want blacks to unify because it threatens their superiority so whites react to black unity by increasing their level of unity and discrimination against blacks.
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 29, 2005 at 7:13 AM
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quote: Essentially, what I glean from CF proposal is that African America can exist as an independent sovereign entity within the interdependent economic and political construct that is America. His plan is less realistic because he ignores the interdependencies and power dynamics of that creates inertia to his proposition.
I NEVER SAID THIS. Please note that I have stated that WE NEED TO PAY FEDERAL TAXES AND STATE TAXES TO HAVE THESE ELEMENTS OF GOVERNMENT TO CONTINUE THEIR OPERATIONS. I have AT NO TIME said that we will not interact with White folks. There will continue to be NATIONAL COMPANIES such as cellphone providers, gasoline providers, car manufactuerers, etc that BLACK PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO PURCHASE GOODS AND SERVICES FROM. Considering licensing for cellphones, for example, this is doled out by the FCC and will remain national in scope. I am SPECIFICALLY talking about the need for jobs for Black people that the current economic arrangement is not providing. All Black people will not agree to such an arraignment of TOTAL local economic development and this is not what I am suggesting
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Nmaginate
A1 · 12,097 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 7:22 AM
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quote: I NEVER SAID THIS.
One thing you NEVER said was something that would genuinely answer this: quote: CF - can you tell me who discusses or even infers that "resentment" is any part of the civil rights agenda? Did Frederick Douglas talk about "resentment"? Did MLK talk about "resentment"? MX? Does Jesse Jackson talk about resentment? How about Nmaginate? Kevin41? Me?
Where are you getting this junk from?
THE QUESTION is about whether you can demonstrate whether the Agendas and/or Discourse of the Black Leaders NAMED (and/or alluded to) and the Black AA.org Posters NAMED who have made or demonstrated that:
RESENTMENT (of White People... or the Black Predicament)
is a staple of their Agenda or Discourse?
We've yet to get your list and links to those person(s) and their statements that gave impetus to this, your oft repeated charge about RESENTMENT.
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Noah The African
A1 · 4,184 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 7:23 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Constructive Feedback: quote: Essentially, what I glean from CF proposal is that African America can exist as an independent sovereign entity within the interdependent economic and political construct that is America. His plan is less realistic because he ignores the interdependencies and power dynamics of that creates inertia to his proposition.
I NEVER SAID THIS. Please note that I have stated that WE NEED TO PAY FEDERAL TAXES AND STATE TAXES TO HAVE THESE ELEMENTS OF GOVERNMENT TO CONTINUE THEIR OPERATIONS. I have AT NO TIME said that we will not interact with White folks. There will continue to be NATIONAL COMPANIES such as cellphone providers, gasoline providers, car manufactuerers, etc that BLACK PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO PURCHASE GOODS AND SERVICES FROM. Considering licensing for cellphones, for example, this is doled out by the FCC and will remain national in scope. I am SPECIFICALLY talking about the need for jobs for Black people that the current economic arrangement is not providing. All Black people will not agree to such an arraignment of TOTAL local economic development and this is not what I am suggesting
How are you going to create these jobs and then allocate the job opportunities specifically to blacks, without alienating whites who might want those opportunities too...if they are good opportunities?
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bigddouble
A1 · 3,180 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 8:08 AM
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From reading this thread & all the others, I think the faultline exists in the following places:
1) CF believes US law has been sufficiently modified for us to take advantage of the changes.
2) CF believes that as the law evolves that we must evolve to take advantage of the law. Without our internal change, the value of the change in law is minimal.
3) CF believes that self-improvement for our communities should be discussed as frequently & fervently as discrimination against our communities is discussed.
4) CF believes that inequalities (race, class, gender) will always exist no matter what is codified in US law. To this end, we must learn how to acheive in less than ideal situations.
CF - is this an accurate summarization?
If so, can the ideas be integrated into the socio-political strategy for the Black community?
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 29, 2005 at 9:03 AM
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quote: ) CF believes US law has been sufficiently modified for us to take advantage of the changes.
2) CF believes that as the law evolves that we must evolve to take advantage of the law. Without our internal change, the value of the change in law is minimal.
3) CF believes that self-improvement for our communities should be discussed as frequently & fervently as discrimination against our communities is discussed.
4) CF believes that inequalities (race, class, gender) will always exist no matter what is codified in US law. To this end, we must learn how to acheive in less than ideal situations.
CF - is this an accurate summarization?
If so, can the ideas be integrated into the socio-political strategy for the Black community?
I believe this is a fair characterization of what I 'MINIMALLY' believe. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A FERVENT OPPOSITION TO RACISM. This alone is not going to TRANSFORM THE BLACK COMMUNITY. It is not a mutually exclusive effort to focus on developing a CULTURE AMONG BLACK FOLKS that have the FORCE that it will encapsulate to blow past the force of racism in many areas that are now a concern.
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Kweli4Real
A1 · 8,626 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 9:09 AM
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quote: I wonder what CF has to say about internal changes when every day hard-working successful and/or educated, professional, law-abiding blacks face discrimination, such as in hiring, lending and medical care.....
By K41 See that's the problem...CF doesn't recognize that successful and/or educated, professional, law-abiding blacks face discrimination; But neither does the struggling, under-educated, blue collar, [ex]felon. All of our communities ills are the result of our adherence to a dysfunctional culture. Respectfully, that's
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Noah The African
A1 · 4,184 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 9:42 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Constructive Feedback: quote: ) CF believes US law has been sufficiently modified for us to take advantage of the changes.
2) CF believes that as the law evolves that we must evolve to take advantage of the law. Without our internal change, the value of the change in law is minimal.
3) CF believes that self-improvement for our communities should be discussed as frequently & fervently as discrimination against our communities is discussed.
4) CF believes that inequalities (race, class, gender) will always exist no matter what is codified in US law. To this end, we must learn how to acheive in less than ideal situations.
CF - is this an accurate summarization?
If so, can the ideas be integrated into the socio-political strategy for the Black community?
I believe this is a fair characterization of what I 'MINIMALLY' believe. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A FERVENT OPPOSITION TO RACISM. This alone is not going to TRANSFORM THE BLACK COMMUNITY. It is not a mutually exclusive effort to focus on developing a CULTURE AMONG BLACK FOLKS that have the FORCE that it will encapsulate to blow past the force of racism in many areas that are now a concern.
Hey brother....can I get some fries with that Shake_off of answering my question conscerning your PLAN for the creation of good jobs just for black folk? HINT: People don't respect you because you duck and dodge, obfuscate, misdirect and dissappear when the going gets tough.
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Michael B. Moore
A1 · 14,197 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 9:53 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Noah The African:
HINT: People don't respect you because you duck and dodge, obfuscate, misdirect and dissappear when the going gets tough.
You don't say shit neither! 
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Kevin41
A1 · 5,903 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 12:06 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Kweli4Real: quote: I wonder what CF has to say about internal changes when every day hard-working successful and/or educated, professional, law-abiding blacks face discrimination, such as in hiring, lending and medical care.....
By K41 See that's the problem...CF doesn't recognize that successful and/or educated, professional, law-abiding blacks face discrimination; But neither does the struggling, under-educated, blue collar, [ex]felon. All of our communities ills are the result of our adherence to a dysfunctional culture. Respectfully, that's
Thanks Huey, I do not even have to respond to CF based on your post.....Why is he so caught up on white people when all I want is equality, giving a f-k less whether white people live next to me or like me...hell I grew up in a middle class black neighborhood that was/is very functional.....nothing but married families and children who acheive in integrated schools and go off to black and white colleges and graduate at a high azz rate.....that cultural schit he eludes to pertains to some black people but not our race.....he lives to promote sweeping generalizations in that judgemental "white man's" posture that obviously gives him some sense of adequacy above what he gets if he aligns himself with the black majority....sad indeed........
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 29, 2005 at 1:59 PM
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quote: HINT: People don't respect you because you duck and dodge, obfuscate, misdirect and dissappear when the going gets tough
I am not LOOKING FOR "RESPECT" on this board. You are one of the biggest "duckers" when I corner you and have you look in the mirror in our many debates of the past. As I told you before - The day that I hand MY SELF CONCEPT and SELF WORTH over to those who have proven themselves to have a measuring stick that is dry rotted and warped is the day that you will see a ring through my nose with a chain attached to it, asking YOU for instructions on where to walk. I ask that an OBJECTIVE REFERENCE be put forth for EVERYONE TO BE MEASURED BY!!! Those who have the gift of rhetoric, who can present themselves as BLACKA THAN BLACK, the BLACKEST brother that there ever was DO NOT IMPRESS ME. I careful inspection of their EFFECTIVENESS versus their ability to cast verbal aspersions in the TRANSFORMATION of the Black community from where too many of us stand today.
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Michael B. Moore
A1 · 14,197 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 2:11 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Constructive Feedback: quote: HINT: People don't respect you because you duck and dodge, obfuscate, misdirect and dissappear when the going gets tough
I am not LOOKING FOR "RESPECT" on this board. You are one of the biggest "duckers" when I corner you and have you look in the mirror in our many debates of the past. As I told you before - The day that I hand MY SELF CONCEPT and SELF WORTH over to those who have proven themselves to have a measuring stick that is dry rotted and warped is the day that you will see a ring through my nose with a chain attached to it, asking YOU for instructions on where to walk. I ask that an OBJECTIVE REFERENCE be put forth for EVERYONE TO BE MEASURED BY!!! Those who have the gift of rhetoric, who can present themselves as BLACKA THAN BLACK, the BLACKEST brother that there ever was DO NOT IMPRESS ME. I careful inspection of their EFFECTIVENESS versus their ability to cast verbal aspersions in the TRANSFORMATION of the Black community from where too many of us stand today.
Whateva - just answer questions. The fact is that you are trying to persuade people to your POV. Without credibility or the ability to intelligently respond to questions - you have little ability to persaude.
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Nmaginate
A1 · 12,097 Forum Posts
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September 29, 2005 at 3:56 PM
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quote: Whateva - just answer questions. The fact is that you are trying to persuade people to your POV. Without credibility or the ability to intelligently respond to questions - you have little ability to persaude.
And the whole, "I don't want respect" bit is complicated by his whinings about how the Radio personalities, etc. were "saying the same thing, I say" and his idea of the need for a "democratic structure" in the Black Community so views like his (or those that aren't "mainstream") can be (*ahem*) RESPECTED. I should make a poll and see if any other such person, has went to the extent he has, in every type of way he has to say, in essence, "my views have [greater] merit (than those of ya'll who disagree with me)"... I can't think of anyone who has been on the wrong side of the Political Consensus here, on any issue or ideologically on several issues, who has went to the extremes that CON-Feed has in trying to say, in essence, "ya'll wrong and I'm right" especially any one of us Quasi-Socialist or BLPF he likes to name off in his Lofton-esque, broad brushing of us all into the same camp of people who just don't see things right [like him] - even though he is DECONSTRUCTED at every turn. CF and DD, since it appears you need to hear this, VALID SENTIMENTS alone, like valid premise(s), DO NOT MAKE FOR A SOUND ARGUMENT. From his underlying premises/assumptions alone, CF's ideas are problematic. A cursory review of his FANTASTIC SAMS commentary demonstrates that this guy doesn't have a clue... and is operating under some problematic underlying assumptions that render his argument, in whole, rotten to the core. Even the Devil Knows The Truth. So there is no credit for merely expressing sentiments, even truisms, on one/certain things but having the bigger picture screwed up. There is a serious question as to WHETHER WE REALLY DO AGREE ON [undefined] OBJECTIVES? There is no reason to automatically assume we do just because someone can say the "right" words. Hell, White people do that all the time and we know, by and large, when it comes to Black people and White people, generally, we both don't have the same idea of what EQUALITY is. So why are we to assume that Black people who can "say all the right things" are talking about the same things? Defining LIBERATION, etc. the same way? Let alone "racism" and the extent of it? I think Faheem has spoken to this before, but there was in the past, despite differences in approaches/ideology, a virtual consensus among Black people of What We Were Up Against. CF, for one, represents a break from that tradition because there is no such agreement from him, with that masses of Black people of what we're up against. Again, his FANTASTIC SAMS idea is indicative of that.
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 29, 2005 at 5:28 PM
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quote: Originally posted by MBM:
Whateva - just answer questions. The fact is that you are trying to persuade people to your POV. Without credibility or the ability to intelligently respond to questions - you have little ability to persaude.
My friend MBM My "personal victory" would come if I were able to BYPASS THE FILTER ON BLACK AMERICA and have my people to PUT UP FOR INSPECTION all that they have been lead to believe, especially in the past 40 years. The key question would be "is the INTERNAL BLACK COMMUNITY as represented by it's social structures STRONGER TODAY than 40 years ago?" THese INTERNAL MEASURES would be: * The state of our families where the BLACK WOMAN and the BLACK MAN have but each other to make it through this world rather than having POLICY that pushes the Black man out from the head of the household and enables him to be a "free roaming PLAYA PLAYA" * The CREATIVITY that brought us JAZZ being perverted into the spirit of materialism, misogyny and braggadocious threats of violence * The projection of RACIAL DIGNITY rather than "I Don't Give A Fuck" Who is responsible for allowing this to FESTER AND FERMENT INTO OUR COMMUNITY TODAY?
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Kevin41
A1 · 5,903 Forum Posts
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September 30, 2005 at 12:15 AM
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quote: quote:
The fact that on average, with the same skin color as you have, are able to come to this country and perform at a high level than many native Blacks and even go to elite schools to a greater percentage (Black in Ivy League schools are now mostly African or Caribbean direct ancestry) doesn't cause the type of INTROSPECTION that one would think, resulting in the alteration of the assumptions on racial obsticals that folks have.
CF, Check the research that showed how Nigerians were outperforming whites at Oxoford....I would say that was about 7-8 years ago when I read that and if they are not outperforming them now, I bet you damn well they are in the mix competitively speaking. You have to un-azz (texan for let go) the use of demeaning, degrading and stereotypical descriptions of black people based on YOUR perceptions and choice of descriptions. If I were around you in person on a constant basis, I would not spend my time defending black people from racism in blackface....everytime you would start that schit i'd let your azz have it with both barrels.....from a verbal perspective. One thing is consistent about your azz though.....you will avoid the shit out of any questions that force your azz to view whites in a equitable light with blacks on any topic that is based on some f-ked up ways. You bask in comfort when it comes to outlining the deficiencies blacks possess according to you...but when tangible proof is given to you to show that race is not a factor but human behavior, you coward in this puzzy azz way and ignore the schit altogether....then your azz will selectively become agressive with that usual rhetorical diverting and delfection of the topic that is up for discussion. But your defense of white people if you are black is really some weird azz schit....you come across (if you are black) that you would defer to the white man in the worse way...like being his sexual slave or some weird schit....and I usually don't go there, "talking under people's clothes" as my mom would call any kinda nasty schit...but I really wonder how far you will go to be in deference to whites, based on the way you try to walk their walk and talk that talk...and if you are white and just playing some f-ked up game.....that schit still wouldn't fly in here.......because despite that self-loathing schit you dump onto black people daily.....knowledge and color has no correlation whatsover...that is just some racist bullschit you have been colonized in the mind to believe......but what the fuck you really need to take your ass to someone's school or clinic and learn is a) how to talk to and not at or about people b)learn to talk in solutions and tangible action plan and save the fucking commentary....support your schit with data, studies, records from governmental agencies and schit like that....let your fucking intellect ascend beyond message board chatter....and someone may listen to your azz.....on da real.......
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Kevin41
A1 · 5,903 Forum Posts
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September 30, 2005 at 12:19 AM
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quote: and if you are white and just playing some f-ked up game.....that schit still wouldn't fly in here.......
*Also..it ought to serve as some kind of indicator to you of how fucked up and racist you are....but the sad part is....you'll never be that smart in life to think you are the scientist with the fucking clipboard and we are the white mice....as a part of some kinda social experiement....if that is the case...take your clipboard, sharpen the corners and stick it up ya azz sideways....so whatever your angle is CF....I gotcha covered.............
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Constructive Feedback (Guest) |
September 30, 2005 at 8:31 AM
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quote: Check the research that showed how Nigerians were outperforming whites at Oxoford....I would say that was about 7-8 years ago when I read that and if they are not outperforming them now, I bet you damn well they are in the mix competitively speaking.
THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF HOW KEVIN AND OTHERS WILL RESORT TO LYING AND OTHER TACTICS AS THEY ATTEMPT TO MISCHARACTERIZE ME. Please note my words as follows: quote: The fact that on average, with the same skin color as you have, are able to come to this country and perform at a high level than many native Blacks and even go to elite schools to a greater percentage (Black in Ivy League schools are now mostly African or Caribbean direct ancestry) doesn't cause the type of INTROSPECTION that one would think, resulting in the alteration of the assumptions on racial obsticals that folks have.
My words CLEARLY talk of the ability of OTHER BLACK SKINNED PEOPLE to perform and raise the question about the MENTAL STATE OF SOME BLACK AMERICANS WHO, HAVING THE EXACT SAME MENTAL FACILITIES AS THESE AFRICANS AND CARIBBEANS can't see their way past their CONDITIONED HOPELESSNESS. You see Kevin, MBM and others can't get past the concept that THEY OWN BLACKNESS. They fail to see that they are but a PERSPECTIVE ON BLACKNESS. I am critical of THEIR PERSPECTIVE not on ALL BLACKS AND ESPECIALLY NOT BLACK AS A "PHENOTYPE". In doing so I WOULD BE CASTING MYSELF AS INFERIOR SINCE I AM BLACK. quote:
You have to un-azz (texan for let go) the use of demeaning, degrading and stereotypical descriptions of black people based on YOUR perceptions and choice of descriptions. If I were around you in person on a constant basis, I would not spend my time defending black people from racism in blackface....everytime you would start that schit i'd let your azz have it with both barrels.....from a verbal perspective.
ANOTHER LIE. I, again, am critical of THE WORLD ACCORDING TO KEVIN not of ALL BLACKS at the genetic or permanent level. The problem that Black Americans have INTERNALLY is the problem with the THOUGHTS AND UNDERSTANDINGS that have been HOISTED upon us and maintained by the Black Quasi-Socialist Progressive Fundementalists. SOME of what they told us WAS TRUE in the context of the long suffering that we endured. They are UNABLE to make reference to TODAY'S WORLD, leveraging our FREEDOMS to achieve a result THAT STEMS FROM OUR COMMUNITY. Instead they seek to make us of NATIONAL MONEY, buying into the concept of America in order to achieve equality. All the while they are REJECTING AND REPUDIATING the CAPITALISTIC system of America that Produces this wealth. Oh just listen to them. When Clinton had the surplus you would swear that he gave some of these Kneegrows a Red Cross Debit card that allowed them to draw upon this money. Little will they tell you that THIS MONEY came from UNFETTERED CAPITALISM on the financial markets. The very systems that THESE FOLKS HATE and wish to regulate, placing GOVERNMENT and not greedy businesses in control of this. THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE IS THAT YOU (Kevin, MBM, others) CAN'T LOOK YOURSELVES IN THE MIRROR AND RATIONALIZE WHAT YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE WITH YOUR ACTUAL ACTIONS AS AN AMERICAN, AS A CAPITALIST CONSUMER CO-CONSPIRATOR. YOU are the one who is living a lie. You may disagree with my perspective but I am in tune with my beliefs and my reality. Are YOU?
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