quote:

Originally posted by detroit1:

quote:

Originally posted by BlackBalletDancer:
.....a larger issue to me is the dynamic between Black women and Black men in a dating situation.....Asking a Black woman out is like trying to peal a cactus leaf bare-handed. Maybe the inside is soft and sweet but the pain of getting to the inside makes you question the cost.

As long as family dysfunctions like absent fathers and alcohol/drug abuse continue to plague many black families, some traumatized children will grow up to be codependent adults.

Codependent thinking tells the host that unavailable people are attractive and to avoid someone who is truly trustworthy because they don't press the right insecurity buttons; all the while appearing to search for someone, when in fact they are pursuing people who are unattainable, all to avoid the risk of getting attached to a real prospect – someone who might abandon them sooner or later, the same thing they perceived their absent father did.

Codependents are attracted to people who are unable to meet their needs, who are unavailable on some level, as a protection from allowing themselves to get close to someone who could be available to them. Allowing someone to see into them, to see who they really are, feels to the disease like the last thing they want to do - and it generates incredible fear of allowing that kind of intimacy. In the codependent disease defense system, they build up huge walls to protect themselves and then - as soon as they meet someone who will help them to repeat the patterns of abuse, abandonment, and betrayal they lower the drawbridge and invite them in.

This fear of intimacy makes a person feel turned off by someone who is sincerely interested in them. When they successfully win the love of another, they suddenly turn off and shut down because they're unable to feel anything when someone freely admires or appreciates them.

Damn... that was pretty strong, and quite profound.

In reply to Fabulous. This is an arguement I always hear about artists who explore the issues between Black people in their work. Not talking about an issue doesn't make it go away, it simply festers. Whether the filmmaker is right or wrong about his premise, it is only by discussing this issue that the undercurrent of pain and sadness depicted in the film and in the posts here can be healed.

As far as how it makes us look to white people, I couldn't care less. What I care about is finding a time when what this brother has depicted doesn't have a ring of truth. "Sunshine," in the form of the arts, is the best disinfectant. The vigorous discussion prompted by this film is healthy. Discussion should prompt reflection, not dismissive anger.

Originally posted by BlackBalletDancer:

In reply to Fabulous. This is an arguement I always hear about artists who explore the issues between Black people in their work. Not talking about an issue doesn't make it go away, it simply festers.
--------------------

Well, the thing is. . .personally, I have yet to see any reasonable 'discussion' on the issue. . .all I have seen is one more reason to publicy disparage each other.

If you consider this honest discussion, well, good for you. I'm not trying to knock you or anyone else for their opinion. We can respectfully disagree.

---------------------

Whether the filmmaker is right or wrong about his premise, it is only by discussing this issue that the undercurrent of pain and sadness depicted in the film and in the posts here can be healed.

-----------------------

Again, when I see a reasonable discussion on this issue, I'll reconsider my position.

----------------------

As far as how it makes us look to white people, I couldn't care less. What I care about is finding a time when what this brother has depicted doesn't have a ring of truth. "Sunshine," in the form of the arts, is the best disinfectant. The vigorous discussion
prompted by this film is healthy. Discussion should prompt reflection, not dismissive anger.

------------------------

Actually, I wasn't thinking about it in terms of "how it looks to white folks," in fact, white folks NEVER ENTERED MY MIND. . .I was speaking in terms of being viewed (collectively) in a negative light 'worldwide'.

On the 'world stage' black folk are seen in such a negative light. . .

. . .that millions of black folk (men, women & children)can be murdered & killed with no OUTCRY whatsoever from neighboring countries.

As it relates to this topic though, and speaking for MYSELF, I was thinking more in terms of "how it effects us (black folk)" to be constantly hating on each. . .constantly finger pointing. . .

. . .well, I'm of the opinion that this CAN'T be good for us 'collectively' & in the long run. We have a ENTIRE history of this sort of negativity. But then, that's just my opinion.

Please note: I went back and reread my post, and as stated in my response to Honestbrother, I don't consider the 'world stage' to be just about white folks.

Sweet!!!!!!

Can't wait for Part 2 ....
A Black Pulling-up to the house with A fine Latina! ..... In a Drop Top Lamb!!!!

Their wouldn't be a problem if you just give the brother(s) their child "for a few hours"



Oh damn, I forgot, Black women are a bunch of complainers who are complaining about nothing. We have absolutely no reason to complain, however. We just enjoy being dissatisfied, depressed, and unhappy with how things are going in our community, with our sons, fathers, brothers, etc. Please pardon us while some of you seek temporary refuge from the ills of our community by escaping into the arms of White women. That'll solve our problems, for sure! When are we going to get a clue? [/QUOTE]

I'm trying to find the racist part...that the BM has a non-black woman or that he's being responsible, which is going against the stereotype?

I have really enjoyed reading thru this thread.... But just for the record let me highlight a few positions I disagree with.

1. I don't get this whole disrespect thing.... And it seems most on either side of the debate agree with it.

My position is simple, once a relationship is over neither one of the participants has the right to dictate to the other.... I dounderstand that this has been used by many as a in ur face tool.... But so what, personally when I am done with a relationship I go true a healing period and it is done.... I hold no grudge towards the woman, and I don't assume anything she does is a direct attack on my person....Yes like any human being I could go thru moments of sadness, and have in the past... But that tends to say more about my weakness than it does anything about her or her intentions... My ex could do whatever she wants with whomever she wants whenever she wants. As long as it brings her happiness I am all for it.

Anyways I have read about 15 pages of posts and I am a little confused as to who to respond to....

But I am a little tired of the group theory, that seems to constrict us...I am tired of all this pseudoblack ideology truths that are fed to us in colleges, and different oasis of blackthought that gets regurgitated over and over and over again, as if it applies to everyone and every facet of our lives.
I am tired of pseudointellectual who force us to rethink our brainwashed positions by rebrainwashing us still, and leave us with little to no tools of thinking it thru ourselves.

I am sorry for going off topic, but a lot of what I have read mirrors those tired double bwash..

I have come to a point in my life where I search for less of these types of knowlegde, and broad brushstroke applications.... I need the little things to work.... I nned to be able to view this clip in light of that particular situation, not necesarilly applicable to all situations (as someone somewhere on this thread alluded to) and take it with a grain of salt.

In essensce this is a propaganda clip, just like many before it, albeit it might be doing the opposite of what a million others have done before (i.e representing blackmen poorl, while black women celebrate the incompetence).... But this is not particular to blacklife (as in neither is, not this pro blackman skit, or the pro blackwoman Exhale).

Sadly, the rqmifications are the same, a continuation in the proliferation of stereotypes.... Not that these stereotypes don't exist, but they fail to define us as a whole, nor could we even be defined as such (a whole)....

God Iam losing it I think I read too much...


On a happier note I am falling in lov with Ebony rose's personality by the minute

And thats my 50 cent.... Now hand me 3 quaters

My 2 cents. It seems to me black women are blamed twice: 1)certain black men don't want black women and 2)they blame black women for "too much" drama and that's reason they don't want black women.

I rarely hear a black man say, "I date Latinas, Asians and white women because they are [fill in the blanks with positive qualities"]. Most black men who date outside of the race are doing it as a reaction to black women, which to me means black women are still controlling them.

A white guy told me that white women who date black men are the kind of females white men don't want. I am not sure if that is true, but if it is, does that mean brothas are getting "sloppy seconds"?

The "too much drama" thing kills me. All women have drama. White women invented drama. I know an attractive, highly educated white woman who has five children by five different men. You don't think HER life is full of nonstop chaos?

Lastly, I went to a wedding this past weekend and it was beautiful and inspiring. The couple "jumped the broom" and everything. Black Love is alive and well, growing and thriving.

www.robynwrites.com

As a black woman I am the first to say we sistas need attitude adjustments. We act bad and badass, and it is driving our brothas away. But since when have black men been afraid of drama and fighting?

My man and I have disagreements and squabbles, but that doesn't make him run to white women. Boys, not men, run.

www.robynwrites.com

quote:

Originally posted by hungry4more:
A white guy told me that white women who date black men are the kind of females white men don't want. I am not sure if that is true, but if it is, does that mean brothas are getting "sloppy seconds"?

Lastly, I went to a wedding this past weekend and it was beautiful and inspiring. The couple "jumped the broom" and everything. Black Love is alive and well, growing and thriving.

So one man can speak for what all white men don't want? How would it sound if I made a statement like that about the black women that black men don't want? Would that even sound like it made sense?

I live in Kentucky. I've seen white men with white women that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. I've seen white men with black women I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole ...

Anyway ... Black Love might be alive and well ... but in my neck of the woods it's dead as hell ...

First off I agree with EbonyRose's sentiments.

As far as this...

quote:

Originally posted by hungry4more:
A white guy told me that white women who date black men are the kind of females white men don't want. I am not sure if that is true, but if it is, does that mean brothas are getting "sloppy seconds"?

And Thank you HonestBrother.
hungry4more.... I'd like to comment. White men or women are no more monolithic in their thoughts and choices than any other cultural group. We're all individuals.

I suggest that comment says more about "those white men" being intimidated or having racial issues themselves about dating a white woman - or any other woman - who dates outside her race... than anything to do with the woman herself. People in love will always follow their heart - if it feels 'right' to be with a person, then usually it is right.

Stereotypes that group all behaviours of/and/or culture groups together are illogical. I've read so many "white people (men or women) do [fill in the blank]" enough times on this board but I never comment because it is laughable. No doubt if you flip the script, you'll find laughable - if not distressing - the stereotypes you hear about your culture.

It's all nonsense... people are individuals and make different choices and have different experiences. Some, but not all people are on 'autopilot'.

If 'you' choose to believe/accept a stereotype you probably will believe it until 'you' have your own experience with it.

Each of us has to make our own decisions and choices in life and love. We can look around at others' experiences, but ultimately each new relationship really is a new page. New options, new possibilities, new choices. Unless of course 'we' drag in past baggage and attitude and sabotage it.

quote:

Originally posted by hungry4more:
The only thing I would disagree with is that another person can make you happy (or unhappy). Happiness is an inside job. No one of any race can give you peace and serenity, (which is my definition of happiness.) It has to be nutured from within.

Also sistas needing attitude adjustments and brothas dating outside of their race should be two separate issues. However, the argument goes like this: "black women are [fill in the blanks with negatives] therefore I date outside my race." Makes no sense to me. Choose who you want to be with, and stop blaming people you don't want to be with for your choices.

And to whomever said black love is dead, I respectfully disagree. There are black men and women throughout this planet who love, cherish, will fight FOR EACH other forever. Thank God.

www.robynwrites.com

But, I wasn't talking about happiness in a personal sense ... I was thinking more of a relationship/companionship type of happiness. After all, if you're going to share your time and space with somebody else, it doesn't make sense to spend it with someone who makes you miserable most of the time.

I will still say it, judging by some of the things i have read, that we as a people, are more jealous about the next man / woman, then we are focused on fixing what is wrong with us. Meaning that we are quick to get pissed about any type of situation which would involve another of our kind, being happy.

Hating,, wether it is with some money.. Or a white significant other.(i dont know why white is the biggest issue),, Wether the car is better, newer..

I live in Detroit, and i tell you. i hate it now. And i grew up here. women of color here, have huge chips on their shoulders. Big time attitudes.. I am a consultant, but when i walk to lunch, (New Center Area), i wear my trusty Gortex JAcket , Courtesy of the USMC.. New Center, is home to the Detroit Public schools, HQ, a Hospital, as well as a Nursing assistant School. I talk to people all the time, when i come within 5 feet. Hey, how you doing,, etc.. Not trying to TALK but being courtous. I get the nastiest stares, stupide looks all the time. No biggie. One day , had lunch with a customer, in the New Center building, a chinese restaurant. Naturally the client was a white woman. (Just happend to be). AND man , it is if, i commited murder. So many nasty stares, Proves my point. I am not good enough, to fully embrace, in conversation, YET i am worthy of getting nasty stares, SMirks, the whole package?

HEnce i dont date black women at all. Period. 1- Hate fat women, 2. hate women, with no degree..
Hate women with any type of SLANG in their voice. HATE women who Believe that they are better than anyone else..
Let the flames begin

You know, you are right. I have had to build HUGE walls around me. After reading your post, I have to say i am wrong about a few things. HATE is a very strong word, let me re-phrase, that i dis-like, certain aspects of certain women, that i have seen. It is ironic, that my ideal woman, at the moment, has 0 degree, makes half of what i make, and has no focus on what she wants to do with the rest of her life.
But she accepts who i am, what i do, what i want, and have yet to question me, on anything financial, educational, about me. Her biggest questions so far, is what are we gonna do in the future......
She is white, Race has 0 issue in alot of my thoughts. More so, with up-bringing, morals, and sense of pride.
We as black people, lack a major understanding of simple things like, respect, wether self respect, or the respect of others. As a black man, i see it from black women, all the time.
"Why you with a white woman?" my answer- Why does it matter to you?
"Why are you trying to be better than everyone else" my answer- I am trying to be the best thtat i can be.
"Why you dress like a white guy" My answer- If i make 80k, i think i should look like i am worth 80k. Wearing slacks and a suit, shouldnt be the White Guy Look, all people should strive to be the best..

My problem, is that fat, fake haired, attitude ridden females, who dont know me, Attempt to judge me...

And in this skit, that has been the major feedback..
Someone had the nerve to quote 2pac? Yah good role model he was. What i saw from the skit, was a woman, AT HOME, complaining about a man, comming to pick up his kids, with another woman in the car.
Black women, see a ex, with a white woman in the car. if you got rid of the color, you saw a stingy woman, hateing a man, (That she clearly dumped), because he has moved on, and wants to be happy......

I live in Detroit, and i tell you. i hate it now. And i grew up here. women of color here, have huge chips on their shoulders. Big time attitudes..

Unfortunately, this is something many black women refuse to acknowledge, the unwarranted negativity and hyper defensiveness that many project. I see this kind of thing all the time. When a black man attempts discuss or even mentions it, stand by for a phalanx of harsh accusations and barbs. Flipping of the script is a favorite by suggesting there is something wrong with him and that he is the source of the unwarranted hostility and rudeness. It never ceases to amaze me. Rather than acknowledging this is a wide spread problem and what both sides can do to address it, instead, you will be met with denial and castigation. It's sad....real sad.

I am a consultant, but when i walk to lunch, (New Center Area), i wear my trusty Gortex JAcket , Courtesy of the USMC.. New Center, is home to the Detroit Public schools, HQ, a Hospital, as well as a Nursing assistant School. I talk to people all the time, when i come within 5 feet. Hey, how you doing,, etc.. Not trying to TALK but being courtous. I get the nastiest stares, stupide looks all the time.

And there ya have it. Why bother? Damned if you do and dammed it you don't. My advice, keep on stepping and ignore them like they ignore you. If you come across a sister who is friendly and is not afraid to return a complimentary smile or greeting, show her the same. I speak and smile to sista's all the time who are civil and friendly. No problem. But if they want to play hard ball or a bad ass -I don't have the time nor desire to get caught up in the drama and bitterness of their personal lives. I just keep steppin'!

No biggie. One day , had lunch with a customer, in the New Center building, a chinese restaurant. Naturally the client was a white woman. (Just happend to be). AND man , it is if, i commited murder. So many nasty stares, Proves my point. I am not good enough, to fully embrace, in conversation, YET i am worthy of getting nasty stares, SMirks, the whole package?

Been there done that. Nothing you can do about that. I remember when I was in college, the sista gurls would not give me the time of the day. I was very friendly (still am) and had no problems walking up to someone I thought looked interesting. Anyway, I was sitting on the grass reading and waiting for a class one afternoon when this white girl came over and sat down with me. She started talking about school and classes. She told me she was a chemistry major and changed her major to sociology because she liked people and wanted to do something directly. Now, while she was talking to me, the sista's were walking by and staring at us with the eyes of Charlie Manson! You could see the hate and disgust on their faces. This really intimidated me and I was wishing like hell the white girl would go away. Finally, she left and I sighed a breath of relief and my blood pressure began to drop. I thought about this years later. Those same black girls who gave me those dirty looks and shaking of the head in disapproval where the same ones who would turn their heads in order to avoid eye contact with me before and after that scene with that white girl. It didn't matter! WTF..???? What did I do wrong?

HEnce i dont date black women at all. Period.

Understood. However, this is very unfortunate because there are some very good black women out there who are friendly and would probably treat you very well. However, because of your experiences (just the bad ones they've had with black men), you've decided not to deal with them. Too bad, but I understand.

1- Hate fat women, 2. hate women, with no degree..Hate women with any type of SLANG in their voice. HATE women who Believe that they are better than anyone else..Let the flames begin.

Wow! Hard core. I guess it all boils down to personal preference. Good luck.........

I only watched the first review!! I thought it was very good!

But, I wonder ... I'm sure not all who saw it thought it was a good movie! Did those who weren't impressed not want to give their opinions .. or were they not asked to?

Perhaps this is more of a "Random Thought" but if there's an answer for it, I'd really like to know.

For women that think that (all) men are dogs ... why do they still want one?

quote:

Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
You are my my favorite poster on this messageboard ...sometimes, you are the only woman that makes sense. You give us single brothers alot of hope that there are smart, positive, and good women out there

Awww ... well, thank you, Radio!

But, it really was a heartfelt question. So many women are so suspect of men, think that all/most are no good, only want one thing, don't know how to act right in a relationship or treat women with respect ... yet, these same women want/expect to get married! And, I'm wondering ... to whom??

If none of the men they meet can pass their test ... is it a matter of hope/luck/a miracle that one man out there is going to be perfect, or how does that work?

When women I know say that "All men are dogs" they most often mean it euphemastically and are usually saying it at a time of intense emotional pain....

Women go through stages with men... and sometimes express their pain differently.... "All men are dogs"... really means something akin to... "I've been naive to openly trust a man with my heart without setting any standards... checking him out... and I've found that not all men are saints.... so they all must be 'dogs'..." most women get over this after a time...

It's simply a stage in grieving where their pain is exaggerated... and frankly I believe its healthy... a woman's psyche goes through a process where she is developing strength against gullibility and faulty decision making....

ummmm... unless she turns "gay" most women get over this stage.... especially when a decent man comes along...

logically analyzing this sentiment is misplaced for women like this... an emotional analysis is needed.... and space given for her to work through her emotions...

Its like a child going through a tantrum.... rationalizing with a child is not wise... the child is working through, unsuccessfully, how to deal with rejection.... anger... or loss... and goes into an emotional fit....

adults do this too...

just not so physical.... we sometimes say it with harsh words we really don't mean... it's a way we develop working through loss...

not everyone goes through this .... just like not every child is prone to tantrums...

when someone says this to me... I don't grill them ... I simply recognize they are in pain... and treat them like I do my children.... remain firm in the truth of the position... "You know all men aren't dogs"... "What's really wrong?"... and usually its one dude that has hurt her.. and she is wrestling with trusting her own ability to set standards for choosing a man....

I just went through this with a friend of mine.... which prompted the "I Hate Men" thread...

quote:

Originally posted by ATPWordPro:
Girrrrllll, you trying to start a riot?

But, I agree. I've had that "discussion" with other women before. Not pretty.

... Not pretty at all!!



And Khalliqa ... Thank you as well for your answer! That's a very reasonable explanation to what was a baffling question for me!