Khalliqa,

Man's natural self, man's fleshly self. The standard used to determine that is what God says about the Flesh, that being at war with the Spirit.

Hope that makes sense!

Forgiveness is a choice. Not forgiving is to much pain not only that, it is not the very nature of the most high GOD. If grace and mercy resides from the heart of the MOST HIGH GOD, why are people conditional with their LOVE for one another? If we were not capable of sinning, then we won't need mercy and grace. I choose to forgive. I'm sure God is pleased.

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:
Shaya:

What is "man's" natural nature? What standard do you use to determine this?

We are SPIRIT, we possess a soul, but we live in a body. When the order of such is disturbed by sin, there will be no harmony. That means there is no peace.

I'm going to BUMP this thread, in case anybody is interested... The reason being I came across it the other day while searching for something else, and I just think it's an INCREDIBLE thread! So many great points, from so many members.

It's a good thing we didn't stick with Ning!

This IS a Good thread....But I think sometimes people can take forgiveness too far. My forgiveness usually doesn't "cement" until the pain goes away regardless of the fact that I say I forgive. And certain acts done against me or my love ones or anyone...may take a long time to heal. I feel in a perfect world...in a world that GOD wanted it to be...to forgive and let go would be easy. But it's NOT a perfect world is it? I think GOD wants us to Fight for injustice...that's why we are here, to do the work that Must be done. Unless you are waiting for God to do it as I notice some people decide to "wait on 'de lawd"...we couldn't be doing the Will of GOD. I think some people think it was the Will of GOD that we were dragged from OUR MOTHERLAND and tortured for years, centuries...becuz' we were a sinful people. How else can you explain the outright separation of Who WE ARE depictive of some of us? How can you explain they being so fulfilled in the same re-ligionsss that put us in slavery ....unless you think that was what was suppose to happen to us? BTW, I AM talking about My PEOPLE in general...not 'yall per se. How can I start the process of forgiveness....when the same attrocities are still going on full speed? My SOUL....cannot rest like dat.

I've scanned over the thread a bit and sorta got a jest of the opinions posted. Mine is probably a bit different.
Of course the idea that you should be able to "forgive and forget" is rather ridiculas unless you have some type of brain damage; but I also don't think forgivness is necessary either.
Many suggested that forgivness is for the person forgiving because it allows you to move on; but this only applies to those who choose to obsess over a transgression against them. I think it should be perfectly natural to refuse to forgive, or even to hate those whom we deem worthy of such judgment without allowing it to rule our lives just as it is natural to love without allowing that love to control our lives.
I think to allow an individual act of hatred to rule our lives but not allow an individual act of love to rule our lives would indicate we give hate more power in our lives than love.

I think most theists will even agree; even their idea of God will refuse to forgive those he deems worthy of such judgment; otherwise there would be no concept of hell.

That's my take on it

Kevin