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B1 |
"To restore or return to the country of origin, allegiance, or citizenship."
I do not feel African Americans will ever realize MLK's dream here in America of a truly free and equal society. It is not humane nature to be fair and impartial. I honestly believe racism is just a convient tool employed by our oppressors to control the limited resources that this society has. To make it short and sweet we will never be equal in America, we will always need government assistance, and we will always need affirmative action. It pains me to think of the condition of AA circa 2103. I regrettably have to admit, that I believe AA will still be crying over racial profiling, police brutality, and why the state of Flroida wants to repreal all of its Affirmative action laws 100 years from now. Solution. We have to look and sincerely consider the possibility of going back to Africa.. Africa has a hand full of countries w/ relatively small populations and large land areas i.e. Namibia, Botswana, Angola, Zambia, and Zimbabwe. Namibia has a population of almost 2 million (population of San Diego County, California) but a landmass about the size of the entire state of California. It has a coast. It borders the Atlantic Ocean, it is mostly desert, but has a farming sector, and a plethora of natural resources… |
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A1 |
It is regrettable you came to that conclusion. But, to try to persuade others you need a better concept.
1. There is no repatriation (i.e. "To restore or return to the country of origin, allegiance, or citizenship.") With the exception of a blessed few, there is no country of origin to identify. And I certainly hope you haven't fallen into the mind-massage trap of accepting Africa, the origin of our ancestry, as a nation of origin. 2. Dr. King would be absolutely surprise to hear you identify and claim African America. In 1968, not even Dr. King identified African America let alone claim it. Clearly, there has been a quantum leap in perception of Americans of unknown African ancestry, and you are a personal example of that progress. Such progress is completely against the intent of America. I would suggest you are exhibiting the belief of the frog in the pot of water that thinks the heat is just a "change in environment." You are the product of the work of a lot of people. You are of a generation that takes "African America" as a given. There is also the old adage of "crying with a loaf of bread under your arm." I would strongly recommend that before deciding to abandon African America you go take a look at your destination. Then decide. A part of sadness of African America is that our national origin was taken from us. You should also know that for at least two centuries, from 1440 AD, no one in African can "looking for us." And the power to do so everywhere. Protest yes. Action no. So there is no repatriation. And that is not say, "Don't go." A new alliance is definitely needed. But, my advise is to not travel "without portfolio." African America is the parity, not only for America's society. It is the parity of any relationship with the nations of Africa above or below or in the Sahara. Don't throw away what you have already claimed in the declaration of your post. PEACE Jim Chester Blaqfist: I misread your basis for the decision for repatriation. I thought you were basing your decision on the old basis force on us by chattel slavery. In the course of responding to a post in this thread by Nmaginate, I realized I had made the wrong read. It was not intended to disparage your decision, even if that was the basis. It clearly is not intended to disparage the choice of African Americans for repatiation. I have not read any posts beyond the post by Nmaginate. It is only resulting therefore from our response to your post. I will try to think faster, or longer in the future. PEACE Jim Chester You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are. |
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A1 |
quote:Mr. Chester, Repatriation aside, what the hell is that "mind-massage trap" crap all about? You say you're idea of African American American is for you and your family but it keeps coming up in every conversation you have on this board damn near. I understand the logistical questions but your "origin of our ancestry" - AFRICA - VERSUS "the nation of our origin" - AMERICA poses and still leaves unresolved the question of our duality. I understand both claims and don't weigh one as more than the other. Mr. Chester you know I am aware of your bias on this one. I just find it funny that you are trying to assert that our "origin" is from two places but you are arguing for the absolutism of one, let alone your Ancestry abstraction to any and everyone you speak with. In other words, some people can't possibly know what you are talking about or why you seem to think you are saying something so important. With all due respect:
Being born here in America doesn’t make you an American." Malcolm X "The Ballot or the Bullet," speech, April 3 1964, Cleveland, Ohio |
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A1 |
I am also a proponent of repatriation, by choice, but not colonization. Repatriation, therefore, is contingent upon being accepted and welcomed and immersed into a nation, land and culture and not arriving trying to take control of a nation and people as was the example set by ex American slaves in Liberia.
In all honesty and with all the knowledge and wisdom that I can garner at this stage of my life, I believe that the phenomenon that would have the greatest impact on black people on this earth is a successful black independent and powerful nation. Not a nation within a nation, but a self-standing autonomous G7 type of nation. I mean most people cannot even bring themselves to picture such a reality without snickering at the unlikelihood, for most people, black and white, believe that black people are not capable of creating such. Black people in this world live without role models of black independent success and strength in the form of an autonomous, independent state or nation. Can you image if there was a country like Canada, which was black? Not Canada in the sense of Cold, but Canada in the sense of economics and opportunities, but in the tropics of Africa or the Caribbean? Such would radically change the way black people see ourselves in this world and what our potential independent of living amongst whites. Such is very plausible, with a siphoning of resources from America, to Africa via the conduit of talented and wealthy African Americans, unto a small nation like Togo or Cameroon or Tanzania. Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( Noah The African in America |
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B1 |
I had to read your post a couple of times James to try and make any sense of it..
But in answere to your retort let me make somethings clear. When I say the phrase African-American, I use it in the ethnic sense. It has no political affiliation what-soever. We are African-American in language, speech, habbits, ect., but I hold no allegiance to the US Constitution what-soever. |
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B1 |
I feel the same way Noah. Go on line check out Namibia. It fits alot of qualifications for a starting point of a New Afrikan Movement such as you have mentioned.. It is in the Southern African hubb, along w/ Zimbabwe, Angola, Botswana, S. Africa, Malawi, and Zambia.. These countires could be Initial colonies in what could become the "United Staes of Africa"
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A1 |
You got me wrong, for I do not favor any thing at all reminiscent of colonization or United States of Africa. I favor immersion into the culture and framework of the native, with the natives running tings. Africans in America carry the plague transmitted from the Europeans that leads one to exploit and oppress and thus we need to be fumigated by immersion before we carry the infection into Africa
Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( Noah The African in America |
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A1 |
As always NOAH, I fundamentally agree. However, I would not be preoccupied with the notion that those of us who want to repatriate would automatically "oppress" our African brothers and sisters. One, because that is not "our" mindset. I would like to think that the idea of "immersion" is in fact the mindset of those of us who would want to repatriate.
Nevertheless, in disagreement, I don't think that should preclude us all from trying to create a more autonomous situation here in the U.S. I think that, as you know, can be helpful in assisting in Repatriation which, IMO, is a long-term goal for those of us that would be the vanguard and trailblazers... Like you, I think achieving autonomy whether here or there and thriving under such a regime would be an all-inspiring model. |
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A1 |
quote: Nmaginate: I know I took the short approach to this posting, but I thought I was clear about the "mind-massage." I think that was fully explained when I pointed out the "origin of our ancestry" is not "nation of our origin." Do you really think that needs to be explained? I suspect you are underestimating others. I agree this post was a little "close" for my standard of not "persuading others." In this case,however, the poster claimed African America. I've gone back to look and can see I may have been wrong. When he used "AA" he could well have meant African Americans and not African America. I referenced the latter in my post as his intent. Maybe I'm getting over eager. I do hate to miss an opportunity to communicate with someone who is of the same conclusion. Regarding your point on "duality:" I am not saying "we",Americans of Unknown African ancestry, are from two places. As I say consistently, Africa is our ancestry. African America is our heritage. I might add acknowledging my inference, America is our citizenship. "Mind-massage" is a term I applied to the process used in chattel slavery to disable the natural demand for unique identity, the next step after "I think, therefore, I am." A consultant was brought into Virginia Colony somewhere in the period 1650 to 1680 to help the Virginians deal with the problem of the Africans using identity to rally themselves to resistance. He brought the system of mind-control. The system had proven successful in the islands of the Caribbean and South America for a hundred years. That system reduced allowed identity of the slaves to Africa and color. No tribal identitfication. No national identification. No religious practice, or identification, etc. In reading the original post, I went to that interpretation in responding. I did not recognize the present day embracing of Africa for identity by many Americans of unknown African ancestry. Just as many embraced "black" as both a descriptor of what they were, and "Black" as the indicator of who they were. I did both in the 1970s. I rejected "Black" as an indicator of who I am in 1995. I still use "black" as a descriptor of what I am. With regard to the quote from Malcolm X: I never found Malcom X to be uninformed on how the American Republic works. In fact, he was quite astute. In the quote you cited, I never saw the issue being citizenship, but rather one of acceptance and practice. The entire quote is metaphore. Clearly, he did not mean that a native-born person is not American. ________________________________________________ :_"Sitting at the table doesn’t make you a diner. You must be eating some of what’s on that plate... Being born here in America doesn’t make you an American."_ Malcolm X _"The Ballot or the Bullet,"_ speech, April 3 1964, Cleveland, Ohio Some people are tired of crumbs... ________________________________________________ I don't read any disrespect in that. The statement is an accurate read of American society. He spoke similarly of our circumstance in his autobiography. I've agreed with that since I first read the book in the 1970s. And I am long tired of "crumbs" from the table of American society. That's why I made my choice for a full, parity identity as an African American-American, as you know. This declaration completely negates the nebulous nature of the duality America created. It makes a positive out of the intended negative. It leaves America with no choice, AND no argument. We are everything America intended us to be: 1. Distinct from all other Americans. 2. Unique as African American-Americans. That's my analysis of the construction of the American Republic, and my solution for the practices of American Society. PEACE Jim Chester You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are. |
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A2 |
I agree with repatriation by choice and some of our African-American brothers and sisters did do just that during the 1960's and 70's. Others decide that a move to the Caribbean or black nations within the Diaspora is the right thing for them to do.
What I find disturbing is that so many African-americans don't even look upon the African heritage as being positive starting as children. I am extremely proud to say that I know what country my progenators originated from in Africa. Even if I didn't know, as I didn't up until recently, I am still proud. Our people have made the mistake of confusing the methods with the objectives. As long as we agree on objectives, we should never fall out with each other just because we believe in different methods, or tactics, or strategy. We have to keep in mind at all times that we are not fighting for separation. We are fighting for recognition as free humans in this society Malcolm X, 1965 |
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A2 |
Repatriation sounds fine to me, because that's the only way I see us UNITING. Now, if the spiders and snakes are larger than the ones we have here, and I think they are, then I'm not gonna live very long, because I'm gonna have a STROKE!! Can't deal with bugs.
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C1 |
quote: I don't want to go! What makes you think we would be welcomed among the indigenous folks of those regions? If there are small populations and large land areas there is probably a good reason for that. Maybe there are environmental reasons. Besides, how would you like someone setting up house in one of your rooms? That's what my perception is of your idea. I would be very upset and down right hostile at your arrogance if I was a native of the land you were talking about moving to. Because thats what it would be on our part, arrogance, to think we would be welcomed with open arms to take someone's land. Hmm, is this how the europeans acted during colonization. I think we need to be the coffee bean in hot water that is influencing the environment in which we find ourself. Our mindset should be where ever we are in the world we should stand as one people. First, we have to have that mindset. Haiti is the only black country in the western hemisphere. Do we support them? No. We must start in our own homes (grassroot) if we are serious about unity in order to succeed at WORLD level. So, the solution is not moving but staying and uniting. |
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A1 |
I think black people, especially the African American collective, have a philosophy of “if THEY build it, WE will comeâ€. Meaning, we are not pioneers as a people, but rather, immigrants who come after the success has been established or created. I have no doubt that if a successful black nation was developed by “theyâ€, whomever “they†may be, that massive numbers of blacks from all over the globe would attempt to immigrate there. However, we want to see its success and viability before we will go.
What has made Atlanta Georgia the Mecca of migrating Africans in America? Thousands of black folk pull up roots each year to relocate there, because of the combination of opportunity and living in metro area that has a significant percentage of its population composed of black people. People raised in Michigan do not stay in Michigan because they helped “build†Michigan and the auto industry through their hard labor. They migrate simply because they feel more at “Home†in the South do to the fact that that it is where their ancestral roots were, post Africa and now the climate has changed from one of oppression to one of opportunity. Thus, many born and raised Michigan black folk are migrating south and to the Atlanta area. I think that 8 out of ten black folk would prefer living around other black folks. One of the big problems with the idea of repatriation is that we really do not see Native Africans as “black folkâ€. Many of us see them as different from who we are as is the white man from us. It is such a perspective that fosters the ideology of supremacy and inferiority…. a concept and philosophy which we should understand very well as the victims of the philosophy of white superiority. Malcolm X once lamented, paraphrasing, that black people (African Americans) would never learn to love themselves without first learning to love Africa and Africans. He said that you cannot learn to appreciate and love the plant, without first loving the seed and the roots. I totally agree any black person who does not have a love and appreciation for Africa and Africans, do not have a true love for his own black people, if not him or herself. The reason being is that the ONLY thing that has made us different and separate from the Africans in Africa is white people. Thus, if we see our black people in America as different, in a better way, that difference, therefore, is the product of whiteness or white influence. Such rationalization is therefore in advocacy of white superiority and black inferiority at its roots. I am an advocate also of what Nmaginate suggested, which is building a black nation within the USA land mass. In fact, I have proposed the creation of such on another forum, by a massive migration shift of talented or committed and pioneering black folks to Mississippi, a state that is already nearly 40% black. Since there is only about 3 million people in that small state, the migration of a million black folks to that state would easily put it over the plurality and towards black control. The goal being to have black employers engaged in the production of durable goods, software, agricultural products and the entire general products and services needed for survival in the modern era. Such goods produced could be exported to the Caribbean and Africa and cultural exchanges between the Islands and the motherland could help merge the black world into seeing ourselves as one people all working for the uplift and protection of our people, to make sure that what happened in the past will never manifest again. However, notwithstanding this “ideaâ€, I do see repatriation to our TRUE ancestral roots, as the ultimate goal. For our true roots are not Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia or the Carolina’s, unless we define who we are by slavery and not the thousands of years of black history that created ALL humanity in Africa from our seed. I see dual citizenship as being the first step to allowing this to take place as many Jewish Americans have a dual citizenship with Israel. Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( Noah The African in America |
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A1 |
Diamond... Noah....
I don't see this as an Either/Or issue. I don't see why in the process of strengthening ourselves here we can't work towards creating a workable situation for those that would like to repatriate... Sorry Diamond but I don't think your attitude towards Africans is absolute. There is and continue to be any number of Blacks who personally choose to do that with no regrets. I don't see why it is so hard to think that there exist people and situations were the feelings would be mutual. Just because you have no desire and feel that there is some possible unfortunate consequences you shouldn't pose your idea as the only one. NOAH... My idea is less specific than your "Mississippi Model". I guess I would call it more of a national Metro Improvement program that would go city-by-city then expanding all over the country. But that is contingent on an even more "radical" idea that you are aware of. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want rain without thunder and lightning. -- Frederick Douglass |
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Founder |
I think the idea of repatriation is a great one. I'm not sure what many Africans would think though. There already appears to be quite a bit of ethnic insecurity that you all know has lead to all manner of horrors on the continent. I wonder whether while we might see them as our black brothers and sisters, if they might see us as just another "tribe" to be feared/ostracized etc.
I'd love for there to be a place(s) on the continent where African Americans would feel comfortable in "coming back home". That was the genesis of a post about Liberia potentially being that for us that I wrote awhile back. Frankly, I envy the relationship that American Jews have with Israel. Whether to choose to live there or not, at least to have a bit if an easier way to visit Africa and interact there with with the people - on their terms. I would love that! Either way, strengthening the relationship between African Americans and Africans and Africa (I believe) can be a significant factor in helping to rebuild us as a people. P.S. I also think that we should do a better job of "selling" the idea to both African Americans and white America that black folk built this country and are as "American" as anyone - without regard to any other factors (color or otherwise). We actually have MORE claim to our "Americanness" than many whites who came here in the last 150 years or so after we built the place. |
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C1 |
Yikes!! Its Nmaginate AGAIN tearing me a new a**hole.
quote: Brotha, whey are you so hard on me. You seem to delight in stepping on my post. Now, you are suggesting from my post that I am ANTI-AFRICA and ANTI-AFRICANS which is not true. I am only stating my opinion and my 2 cents like everyone else. And, I am tired of you insinuating my thinking is wrong and yours is right. I am not proposing my idea as the only one. I don't think your idea is the optimum one either. I will continue to post my opinions whether you like it or NOT. |
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A1 |
quote:Well... I apologize if I come off that way to you... I just happen to state my view whether pro or con (and in this case I'm only trying to say allow others to have their view too) just as strongly as you do yours. No problem with you viewpoint. It's legitimate. However, I feel BlaqFist and others have legitimate concerns also. Obviously, you feel your view is "optimum"... All I'm saying is that is your view and what seems right for you. It is obviously not so for others. As for myself, I feel both positions on this one. In an ideal world, perhaps, I would Repatriate. Nevertheless, facing reality, my personal feelings is that that would be running away from the 'problem', let alone the logistics. Please, continue to bring your view as forceful as you wish. I simply don't agree with some of what you say... so what? Who am I? Again, I apologize if you feel like I'm picking on you or at your throat or whatever. It should never be that serious for you to feel like you have to justify posting... at least not to me. |
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Founder |
quote: What about the state of Georgia, with Atlanta (an attractive, metropolitan, African American city) being the capital? This is actually a very interesting concept. Create a national campaign to get black folks to move to Georgia (or wherever), creating in essence a "black state". We already control Atlanta, I imagine if blacks started flooding into the state - white folks would flee with the quickness!  At least as a proxy for an independent black nation in North America, controlling one of the 50 might be an interesting proposition. Georgia is intriguing for a couple of reasons. First, Atlanta is a "real" city. It's also already black. There is meaningful business there (Coca-Cola, Delta, CNN, etc.). Hartsfield is one of the busiest airports in the country. Georgia is about 1/3 black with 8 1/2 million total residents. Interesting . . .  |
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A2 |
A black state with 43 million of us up in it?? Sounds wonderful, but that would never be allowed. Just how much peace would there be?? Whites get upset when 5 or more of us congregate together on the job. That would put 'em in a state of Shock and Awe and us too.
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Founder |
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