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Founder |
What are you?
That is a question that gets asked in America with regularity. Sylvester Stallone is Italian. Barbara Streisand is Jewish. J-Lo is Puerto Rican. Peter Jennings is Canadian. Oscar de la Hoya is Mexican. Yet black folks here are "African American". With the above examples, does anyone question their "American-ess" despite the proclamations of their nascent cultural identity? Of course they are all Americans too, but why the necessary distinction for us? Could it be that we are still fending off the self hate propagated through slavery? Still evolving from colored to Negro to black to African American to . . . One look at us and certainly one listen at anything that comes out of our mouths makes plain the fact that we are American, so why the apparent redundancy? Particularly in light of the treatment that we have received on these shores, why the need to clarify with African American? Surely it ain't outta divine love.  So what we've been here for a few hundred years. Our families were in Africa for a few thousand! So what we have no memory of Africa, our ignorance doesn't somehow erase our history from us. One look in the mirror and the world knows where we're from. Why the unique distinction for us? Why aren't we just plain and proud, "African"? Why not?
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A1 |
I agree BUT Colen Powell in an African born in Jamaica
 (he would die to know that!)...For those that don't agree read this...and yes, I am a member/cadre... WE ARE AFRICAN PERIOD! "The All-African People's Revolutionary Party recognizes that African People born and living in over 113 countries around the world are one People, with one identity, one history, one culture, one Nation and one destiny. We have one common enemy. We suffer from disunity, disorganization and ideological confusion. And we have only one scientific and correct solution, Pan-Africanism: the total liberation and unification of Africa under scientific socialism." -From "Some Aspects of the A-APRP" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Having complete control over Africa, the colonial powers of Europe projected the image of Africa negatively. They always project Africa in a negative light: jungle. savages, cannibals, nothing civilized. Why then naturally it was so negative that it was negative to you and me, and you and I began to hate it. We didn't want anybody calling us Africans. In hating Africa and in hating the Africans we ended up hating ourselves, without even realizing it. Because you can't hate the roots of a tree and not hate the tree. You can't hate your origin and not end up hating yourself. You can't hate Africa and not hate yourself. "You show me one of these people over here who has been thoroughly brainwashed and has a negative attitude toward Africa, and I'll show you one who has a negative attitude toward himself. You can't have a positive attitude toward yourself and a negative attitude toward Africa at the same time. To the same degree that your understanding of and attitude toward Africa become positive, you'll find that your understanding of and your attitude toward yourself will also become positive. And this is what the white man knows. So they very skillfully make you and me hate our African Identity, our African characteristics." - Malcolm X, Malcolm X Speaks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE AFRICAN PERIOD Africans born/living outside of Africa have been deliberately kept ignorant of Africa and her achievements by European capitalism for centuries. The purpose of such action was to paint a picture of Africa as a savage land and to force Africans to disassociate themselves front their homeland. After being removed from our homes and made into slaves we have been afraid to admit even to ourselves that we are AFRICANS. Thus, we are the only group in the world who deny ourselves, preferring to be known as Negroes, West Indians, Jamaicans, Afro-Americans, Afro-Brazilians, African-Americans, anything rather than AFRICANS. And all of these names by which we define ourselves have been forced upon us by European enslavers who sought to rob us of any collective identify, so that they could more easily oppress us. Africans born inside of Africa, while recognizing that they are Africans, have identified with the state or colony that they were born in (i.e., Nigeria, Malawi, Morocco, or Togo). This is micro-nationalism, seeing the part as more important than the whole of Africa. This micro- nationalism is part of the "divide and rule" tactic which keeps Africans attached to small countries, governments and life styles where we were born or live rather than identifying ourselves as one nation. All peoples are identified by the land from which they come. Land is the basis of economic freedom for all people. From land comes food, raw materials for making clothes, building houses, schools, factories, and all supplies that are needed to maintain a society. Without land there can be no economic freedom. Without economic freedom there can be no independent development. SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC PROBLEMS We Are African Period. Everywhere in the world Africans have the same social and economic problems. They include starvation or inadequate diet; no jobs or low paying jobs; poor healthcare, and inferior education, or worse yet, miseducation. Mis-education through the schools and/or the media add to the confusion as to who we are, whether we should fight for Africa and our people. Backwards thinking as a result of Capitalist indoctrination which sees money and property as more important than people. Under these conditions, no people can harness and meet their full potential. The same companies that exploit Africans in Africa also exploit Africans in the Caribbean, North, South, Central America and Europe. Texaco, Exxon, Shell, Barclays Bank, Alcoa, Ford Motor Corporation, IBM, and Nestle are just as familiar to Africans at home in Africa as they are to Africans living outside of Africa. By exploiting our labor, our minds, and the rich resources of our homeland, the world's greedy capitalists live a life of splendor. By keeping us divided, disorganized, confused and living under stifling conditions, they try to halt our progress towards the total freedom of Africa and our people. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The philosophy of European capitalism in the colonies is that colonial subjects should labor under any foreign government, with uncomplaining satisfaction. They are supposedly "incapable" of developing the resources of their own country, and are taught to labor and appreciate European manufactured goods, so as to become "good customers." - Kwame Nkrumah -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- European capitalists use the principle of "divide and rule" to keep us oppressed so that they can continue to exploit our labor and our land. The strategy they employ is designed to ensure that we stay confused about our identity thus preventing us from seeing the broader picture of oppression and exploitation of Africans throughout the world. In order to accomplish this, capitalism divides us in two ways: 1. It attempts to keep us physically and geographically separated, and 2. to control our minds through (mis)information and propaganda. ANTI-AFRICAN PROPAGANDA We Are African Period. Africans have been victims of centuries of anti-African propaganda from Tarzan to Radio Free Europe and the Voice of America (radio broadcasts organized by the imperialists to project negatively Africa and Africans). The goal of capitalist propaganda is to instill within Africans everywhere a hatred for Africa and a love for anything European. Propaganda is carried out through newspapers, radio, television, films, and the educational system. In the Americas, the occupied land of the Indians - a slave ship drops an African off in Florida and drops another African off in Jamaica - one picks cotton while another cuts sugar cane. Both are victims of capitalism and both think they have more in common with Europeans than with each other. An African colonized by the French is led to believe they are French. An African colonized by the British is led to think they have more in common with the "Queen" than they do with their African sisters and brothers. This is confusion - confusion created and maintained by the enemy - capitalist imperialism. No oppressed person can have the same interest as their oppressor. The imperialist's anti-African propaganda is aimed at achieving three things: 1. To make Africans think that the interest of the oppressed is the same as the interest of the oppressor - to create the unnatural conditions where Africans actually work against their own interest. 2. To keep Africans divided and disorganized. African people are more than 900 million strong and if organized the effects of racism would be destroyed. Racism is meaningless against an organized people. An example, are the Chinese - racist feeling towards them by the West are moot because there is nothing the imperialists can do against 1 billion organized people. 3. To maintain control of the African continent with its vast resources which made capitalist development possible. The unity of all African people and a unified Africa will be the biggest blow to the maintenance of imperialist power in the world. THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES "The determined and conscious resistance to penetration and foreign domination, we have seen, is a constant feature in the drive for the assertion and preservation of African people. The people possess a rich tradition of fighting, of armed opposition and of socio-cultural resistance to colonial rule ... domination has never been accepted..." - Ahmed Seku Ture We Are African Period. We know this instinctively, for example, when we see Africans in Azania/South Africa being attacked we get angry; when we see Africans suffering in Ethiopia - we feel their pain; when we see Africans addicted to crack in Harlem - we know these are our people. Unfortunately, instincts only lead us to reaction, to spontaneous rebellion, it will not lead to a solution. In the 1980's Africans had riots in Braxton, England, and Miami, Florida, against police brutality and in Azania/South Africa we had major uprisings. African youths with sticks and stones battled South African troops in the streets. Combined Angolan, Cuban, and SWAPO forces handed South Africa a crushing defeat in southern Angola. Led by SWAPO, the Namibian people have liberated their territory from South Africa. While these courageous events remind our people that we can never be defeated, African people continue to suffer everywhere. The primary problem is that our struggle is not coordinated, while our enemy works in concert against us. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A new phase of the African Revolution has been reached. This revolution must overcome and triumph over imperialism, racialism and neocolonialism. It must finally usher in the total emancipation and the political unification of our continent. Africa must be free; Africa must be United." - Kwame Nkrumah -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- While 50% of Africans in the USA live on or under the poverty line, $8 billion is sent to Israel; which is used to oppress the Palestinian people. The Western imperialists, led by the USA, funnel money and military weapons through Israel to South Africa to slaughter our children. Imperialism operates on a global perspective. Secret agencies of Britain, France, Israel, South Africa, USA conduct joint military action against Africans - acts such as the invasion of Grenada a country of 110,000 African people or the bombing of Libya, a state in northern Africa. No small group of Africans can defeat imperialism, no matter how good their intentions. Only the working, struggling African masses can do it. But to do so, we must be organized and bound together by a common goal and guided by correct ideas. In other words, the masses must be correctly organized! Egungun, Egungun ni t'aiye ati jo! Ancestos, Ancestors come to earth and dance! "I'm sick of the war and the civilization that created it. Let's look to our dreams, and the magical; to the creations of the so-called primitive peoples for new inspirations." - Jaques Vache and Andre Breton "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." -John Maynard "You know that in our country there were even matriarchal societies where women were the most important element. On the Bijagos islands they had queens. They were not queens because they were the daughters of kings. They had queens succeeding queens. The religious leaders were women too..." -- Amilcar Cabral, Return to the Source, 1973    |
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Bad Mother Fucker |
OA, I like your style - hard hittin' and you pull NO punches - keep on keepin' on!  Now back to the topic - something I always tell people when they try to say that they are not African: No matter where chinese people are born... they ARE Chinese - no matter where Italian people are born... they ARE Italian - It's the SAME for Africans. Peace, AudioGuy ************************************************* "I am African, not because I was born in Africa; but because Africa was born in me" -Anonymous "The cost of Liberty is less than the cost of repression." -W.E.B. DuBois, John Brown 1909 "... can you imagine Doobie in yo' funk??!!" -G. Clinton Sense is far from COMMON! ... The tragic irony here is that a lot of African Americans may not fully recognize the implications of this decision for years to come. Stop by any barbershop, barbeque or church basement in Black America and you will hear – with distressing frequency – that old canard that "integration" ruined the Black community. William Jelani Cobb ************************************************* |
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A1 |
Now back to the topic - something I always tell people when they try to say that they are not African: No matter where Chinese people are born... they ARE Chinese - no matter where Italian people are born... they ARE Italian - It's the SAME for Africans.---AudioGuy
Do you subscribe to that interpretation of "micro-nationalism?" I understand what he is "pointing" to. I can't imagine a rationale. Oshun Auset: Not to "bypass" addressing your points, but I was in the process of trying to responding to AudioGuy. I think your statement folds into itself. Much like Oshun Auset's. China. Italy. These are nations. So what does, "No matter where they are born, mean?" Where in China? Where in Italy? Where in the world? Clearly those born anywhere within China and Italy are Chinese and Italian. When the China-born and Italy-born people go to other countries in the world, are they still Chinese and Italian? I think the answer is, "Yes." Their citizenship is still Chinese and Italian. They are aliens in the new country. Are they still Chinese and Italian EVEN after taking citizenship in the new country? I think the answer is, "Yes." They are "ethnic Chinese and "ethnic" Italian in their citizenship in the new land. What if the new country is Kenya? If their new citizenship is Kenyan, they are Chinese-Kenyan and Italian-Kenyan. Their children are Chinese-Kenyan and Italian-Kenyan. The same is true for the children of those children. When does any of these people become African? Do any of them ever become African? Until citizenship is taken I think those who immigrated are Chinese and Italian living in Kenya; in Africa. I think they become African when they become Kenyan. The children born in the new nation, are Kenyan by that birth. They are Chinese and Italian, respectively. Their ancestral nationality is China and Italy, respectively. This protocol gets muddy when the attempt to apply it to Americans of unknown African ancestry. It seems to begin with the understanding, perception of Africa. Africa is a continent. Africa was NEVER a nation. Clearly, however, one is African no matter where in (the continent of) Africa the person is born. It is true whether the birth occurred in Egypt of South Africa; in Dahomey or Kenya, or anywhere in between. These locations are not "one nation." They certainly are not "one people." It is true that the protocol described above is also true for Africans. EXCEPT. Africa is still a continent, and NOT a nation. Therefore... Please notice that the Chinese and the Italian in the example are Asian and European, respectively. Not mentioned until now. They are Asian and European because they are native to, or from, nations (contained politically and geographically) within the two continents, respectively of course. Africa is not a political subdivision of any greater entity. Africa is the greater entity. Africa is without political identity. Please notice< I didn't say without political significance. We are indeed African. Africa is our ancestry. Just as Asia and Europe are the ancestry of those used in the example. Equally, the various nations of Asia and Europe , respectively, do not constitute one people. Africa, therefore, CANNOT be ancestral nationality for anyone. But... We are African. WHAT are you? versus WHO are you? is another discussion, maybe? Africa is my ancestry. I am African. African America is my ancestral nationality. African American is my ancestral natlionality. I am an American who is African American. PEACE Jim Chester African Americans for African America http://iaanh2.org African American Pledge of Unity We stand, Together, after left alone in a land we never knew. We Bind ourselves, Together, with the blood and will of Those who have gone before. From the Bodies of our Ancestors thrown away, from the Pieces of Ourselves left to perish, We rise as One, a New Body in a New Land, a New People in a New Nation. Of Common Mind, Body, and Spirit, By Declaration of our Amalgamated Individual and Personal Authorities, We Are African America. © James Wesley Chester 2004; 2008 You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are. |
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Founder |
James isn't it all politics? Why is "ancestral nationality" any more politically acceptable than any other political distinction? Extending the argument, how odd would it be for someone to ask me "what are you?" and for me to answer "I'm from the 13th Congressional district." Both are equally political ways of describing "identity" though.
"Ancestral nationality", frankly, is no more meaningful than "ancestral continent". Who knows, in a thousand years "ancestral planet" may be the most meaningful distinction. Either way, the names are creations of man, embraced by man. Right? Since black folks here typically can't go far enough back to I.D. country of origin - we do the best we can by embracing our continent. Either way, it's all artificial/political, etc. No one should feel any less "connected" for taking ownership of a continent (one political creation) versus a region or country or city or neighborhood or exact GPS coordinate. BTW - I could make a pretty sound argument in favor of all Africans rejecting the national boundaries and identities that were thrust upon them by whites without regard to ethnicities and historical context. In a country that is, by design, a patchwork of many different ethnicities, I find it curious that we seem to be the only group that grabs onto the "American" label as hard as we do. (I know plenty of black folks who would fight if you called them "African". Why?) Now, we certainly have earned our "America-ness" with everything that we've invested in this nation. No argument there. Nevertheless, my sense is that (consciously of sub-consciously) the name was created not out of pride in America, but out of a need to dilute our connection to Africa. Why else do we not say, "we're African".
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A1 |
quote: I see your point. I think we don't say "We're African." because we don't think we are. We don't have to "dilute" our connection. It was done for us. So effectively in fact, we don't know where in Africa we came from. No matter what choice one makes, it is political. It is social. But most importantly it should be personal. It should be about who you are. It should be consistent with who you parents, parents were. It should never be, simply, about what you are. PEACE Jim Chester African Americans for African America http://iaanh2.org African American Pledge of Unity We stand, Together, after left alone in a land we never knew. We Bind ourselves, Together, with the blood and will of Those who have gone before. From the Bodies of our Ancestors thrown away, from the Pieces of Ourselves left to perish, We rise as One, a New Body in a New Land, a New People in a New Nation. Of Common Mind, Body, and Spirit, By Declaration of our Amalgamated Individual and Personal Authorities, We Are African America. © James Wesley Chester 2004; 2008 You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are. |
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A1 |
It seems to me that black Americans are an ethnic group of their own. It's an ethnic group that began here, and that's why, to me, African-American is the appropriate term for it. We are different enough from continental Africans, and far-removed enough, to embrace our new, unique ethnicity.
African-American is an ethnicity the same way Mexican is. We don't usually call ourselves African, for the same reason that Oscar De La Hoya (one of MBM's examples) is not considered Spanish. We are as African as Britain's Tony Blair is German; the Anglo-Saxon tribes came to England fleeing from problems they were having in what's now Germany. That's how I see it. ____________________________________________________ |
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Founder |
quote:  |
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A1 |
quote: Why confused??? Do you find mystery in the fact our parents don't know who they are? You often cite the reasons. Do you think ethnicity,or ancestral nationality is invalid when one knows the people who said first, lived it first? Or in recent generations? I do find it a little scary to be so close to the declaration of who I am. In fact, when I first realized the immediacy, I had heart-thumping apprehension!! And no one was in the room but me. But the pride was boundless!!! And...not to 'stroke the duck' here, but you can't imagine my pride in your seafaring ancestor!!! He is a part of the fabric of who we are. Clearly, he has to be even more of the fabric of WHO you are, and NOT WHAT you are. That man was an American who was as African American as one can get. Oh, by the way, I think J-Lo is African Puerto Rican. PEACE Jim Chester African Americans for African America http://iaanh2.org African American Pledge of Unity We stand, Together, after left alone in a land we never knew. We Bind ourselves, Together, with the blood and will of Those who have gone before. From the Bodies of our Ancestors thrown away, from the Pieces of Ourselves left to perish, We rise as One, a New Body in a New Land, a New People in a New Nation. Of Common Mind, Body, and Spirit, By Declaration of our Amalgamated Individual and Personal Authorities, We Are African America. © James Wesley Chester 2004; 2008 You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are. |
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Founder |
quote: What impact would falling down and suffering from complete amnesia have on your identity? BTW - James you seem to think that calling ourselves African is a slight to those Africans who have been in America for the last few hundred years. How so? BTW2 - the only difference I can think of between Africans born on the continent of Africa and those born here is that on average those of us born here have a higher probability of other blood (white, Indian, etc.) mixed in with ours. Different language and culture is, IMHO, fairly irrelevant since there are hundreds of cultures/languages etc. on the continent of Africa already. The fact that we speak another language or live another culture has no bearing on who we are. Some animals when born/hatched imprint the identity of whatever animal they happen to see first. If a duck sees a cat and imprints/bonds with a cat when first hatched - then it believes that it is a cat. Friends, it ain't a cat. |
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A1 |
MBM, I'm sure we've had this discussion before (a long time ago, though). Just like the English ethnicity originated in England, when the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes came and mixed with each other and with the Celts who lived there (and later, the Vikings and Normans), the Yoruba, Mandinka, Ashanti, Dagomba, Igbo, and many other groups were brought here, and have mixed with each other, with Europeans, and with Native Americans. In the process, like with any other ethnic group, a unique cultural sense developed, based not only on shared past heritage, but on shared current conditions and experiences. There is definitely a rich, unique culture present among black Americans that is different from what existed in Africa before. It began here. Ask yourself, what constitutes an "ethnicity"? If African-Americans have an ethnicity, that ethnicity began on these shores. We are not culturally or genetically any one African ethnic group. Yet somehow, we do have an ethnicity, don't we? Explain why you disagree, if you still do.
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A1 |
quote: Wow!! That's an iconoclastic analogy!!! What does that mean??? I wouldn't dare to guess. PEACE Jim Chester African Americans for African America http://iaanh2.org African American Pledge of Unity We stand, Together, after left alone in a land we never knew. We Bind ourselves, Together, with the blood and will of Those who have gone before. From the Bodies of our Ancestors thrown away, from the Pieces of Ourselves left to perish, We rise as One, a New Body in a New Land, a New People in a New Nation. Of Common Mind, Body, and Spirit, By Declaration of our Amalgamated Individual and Personal Authorities, We Are African America. © James Wesley Chester 2004; 2008 You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are. |
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Founder |
quote: There are hundreds of ethnic groups indigenous to the continent of Africa. I would track better with you if we were trying to align ourselves with a specific African ethnicity. For better or worse, we're not. We're just claiming the only continent in the world that produces folks that look like us. There are two factors that have stimulated this train of thought: 1) The knowledge that despite the fact that other ethnicities have evolved and developed an American character, that they still proudly claim their "home". Again, their American-ness (for lack of a better word) is implicit. It shines with their language, their dress, perhaps their vocation, etc., etc.). But they also proudly claim their home ethnicity as well. I have a buddy who has an Irish flag tattooed on both forearms with the phrase "Irish Pride" on it. Have you ever seen an African American with that tattooed on themselves? If not, why not? 2) We have suffered from a unique brand of mental torture through slavery. It was the kind that seeks to bleach our memories of all attachment to our home ethnicity. Further, it was very effective in getting us to actually hate ourselves; to reject most things black. Our attachment to Africa is but one casualty of this. Others include a predilection by some to fair skin, straight hair, etc. We actually were taught to hate ourselves, and we did. IMO calling ourselves what logically I believe we are takes that last step toward claiming our heritage back from white racism. Again, we've evolved from colored and Negro to black to African American. I just see this as an appropriate evolutionary step. |
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A1 |
After reading the post by Vox, I think I need to say it again.
Vox's comparison with the mixing of blood is valid. But, our identity is more unique than simply fraternization, and assimilation. African America is a place. A place create with intent specifically for us of unknown African ancestry. It seems we in these postings keep trying to "talk around, this glaring fact. African America is the place we live in. It is WHY we are African American. Surely, we "get it" by now No??? PEACE Jim Chester African Americans for African America http://iaanh2.org African American Pledge of Unity We stand, Together, after left alone in a land we never knew. We Bind ourselves, Together, with the blood and will of Those who have gone before. From the Bodies of our Ancestors thrown away, from the Pieces of Ourselves left to perish, We rise as One, a New Body in a New Land, a New People in a New Nation. Of Common Mind, Body, and Spirit, By Declaration of our Amalgamated Individual and Personal Authorities, We Are African America. © James Wesley Chester 2004; 2008 You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are. |
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Founder |
quote: No. You keep talking about the sanctity of national ancestry, yet you refer to the concept of "African America" in a seemingly fast and loose way. If anything African America is a mindset. To say that African America is a "place" stretches the boundaries of reasonableness, IMO. I look forward to hearing your explanation. quote: |
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A1 |
No. You keep talking about the sanctity of national ancestry, yet you refer to the concept of "African America" in a seemingly fast and loose way. If anything African America is a mindset. To say that African America is a "place" stretches the boundaries of reasonableness, IMO.
I look forward to hearing your explanation. In every issue of personal identity, 'mindset' comes first. Reasonableness is rooted in some standard of acceptability. In fact, 'reasonableness' is often THE standard for acceptability. What is reasonable implies the standard being applied is objective, unbiased, pragmatic. We know however this is not the case. Someone sets the social standard, and the political standard for what is 'reasonable.' Please note there is a pragmatic standard for the acceptability of nationality, and therefore for ancestral nationality. Webster's 10th Collegiate says: 5. (b) an ethnic group constituting one element of a larger unit (as a nation). I also like (a) a people having a common origin, tradition, and language capable of forming, or actually constituting a nation-state. I think 5(a) is best applicable here. In many regards freedom is a mindset. You certainly cannot teach freedom. You either have it or you don't. More importantly, you either exercise it, or you don't. With the proper 'mindset', you have the authority to determine who you are. The 'boundaries of reasonableness' you cite are not drawn in the laws of logic. The lines of reasonableness you cite are the limits of the "inside-the-box" thinking you have imposed on yourself. Such a box is a personal fit. It is not one-size-fits-all. I chose to define and declare who I am. I know and can identity the place I am from, and in which I live. Knowing where you are is a personal thing. Knowing who you are is a personal thing. Who you are should fit a system of parity in the world in which you live. Mine does. What about yours? PEACE Jim Chester African Americans for African America http://iaanh2.org African American Pledge of Unity We stand, Together, after left alone in a land we never knew. We Bind ourselves, Together, with the blood and will of Those who have gone before. From the Bodies of our Ancestors thrown away, from the Pieces of Ourselves left to perish, We rise as One, a New Body in a New Land, a New People in a New Nation. Of Common Mind, Body, and Spirit, By Declaration of our Amalgamated Individual and Personal Authorities, We Are African America. © James Wesley Chester 2004; 2008 You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are. |
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