Since the founding of this site a few years ago we have searched for a 'black conservative agenda". A uniquely black - conservative agenda for African America. A conservative agenda which takes into consideration the unique problems, challenges, and history of African Americans. A conservative agenda which responds to not just the broad strategic goals of the over-all conservative movement, but that incorporates conservative principles in a way that most effectively addresses our needs. The original thread was here. With the recent addition of Constructive Feedback I thought we might revisit this thread/question to get the benefit of his/her (and others) thinking.

Why thank you MBM. I an honored to step into the batters box.

One thing that you will find about me is that I am a reasonable man.

My plan starts from "close to home" outward. When all else fails in this "evil world" a person needs to be able to come home and receive shelter and comfort.

So #1 on my list is the reconstruction and support for the traditional Black family. Throughout Jim Crow we had the power of the FAMILY that held us together regardless of the hell that was thrown at us. In my view we need to promote stable family structures for the best interests of our children and for Black women. A woman seeks safety, security and stability above all. Despite the adaptation that has taken place with the Black woman to today's environment where it is not wise to "trust a Brother" most women would yeild some of their supposed "freedoms" for the stability of a solid family. She can build further on this foundation than otherwise.

The benefit of marriage to the man is that it "slows his roll". Whether he upholds his vows or not, more often than not his efforts will be directed toward the benefit of his family back at home. The problems of disease, absentee fathers, domestic violence and other problems that plague us can be addressed (I did not say cured) but the reaffirmation of the traditional family in our culture.

In my view society needs goals and norms, not absolutes. Sure there are people who will fall short. You can have mechanisms who address these exceptions. It is when the EXCEPTION becomes the rule that we have problems.

As quite as it is kept much of the income gap between white and black is dispersed when we measure the income of a married Black couple against a White one. (Yes the White couple makes more).

We need strong warriors in the battle and this to me is the basis of the building of a strong warrior.

The challenge is - will those folks with INDIVIDUALISTIC INTERESTS (right Noah) be willing to forgo their personal agendas and yield to this structure for the greater good of the whole?

What is the politcal agenda? What will be placed on a platform that blacks as a whole will see as beneficial and come flocking that way? What will replace affirmative action since the downturn fostered by the bans such as 209 that black conservatives supported?

I'm glad that you brought up this question again MBM. I'm very interested in getting a clear, concise answer to debate.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin41:
What is the politcal agenda? What will be placed on a platform that blacks as a whole will see as beneficial and come flocking that way? What will replace affirmative action since the downturn fostered by the bans such as 209 that black conservatives supported?

I thought that you agreed that improving the schools that Blacks attend would make us less dependent on AA?

AA was used for admission in to highly competitive and elite universities. With Morris Brown and other HBCU's having trouble keeping their doors open I believe that it is worthwhile to have us to reinvest in our own damned schools. I am sure that your educational journals will show that a higher percentage of Blacks who go on to masters education and beyond came from HBCUs. (or atleast this was the case a few years ago).

Concerning jobs and AA - It is clear that an increase in economic activities in the local community would assist in that effort.

Concerning AA for government contracting (surprise, surprise) I support AA in government contracting when other methods to achieve more minority participation fail.

Renaldo...it is improper debate and forum etiquette to jump to another issue and thread before you have offered closure in others by answer question posed to you. You are a very disingenuous person who appears to be closed and narrow minded, which is not meant as a pejorative, but simply an observation. You refuse to be forced into a confession or epiphany, due to your investment in your ideology to the degree that your vested interest keeps you holding onto it at all cost of truth.

quote:

Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin41:
What is the politcal agenda? What will be placed on a platform that blacks as a whole will see as beneficial and come flocking that way? What will replace affirmative action since the downturn fostered by the bans such as 209 that black conservatives supported?

I thought that you agreed that improving the schools that Blacks attend would make us less dependent on AA?

AA was used for admission in to highly competitive and elite universities. With Morris Brown and other HBCU's having trouble keeping their doors open I believe that it is worthwhile to have us to reinvest in our own damned schools. I am sure that your educational journals will show that a higher percentage of Blacks who go on to masters education and beyond came from HBCUs. (or atleast this was the case a few years ago).

Concerning jobs and AA - It is clear that an increase in economic activities in the local community would assist in that effort.

Concerning AA for government contracting (surprise, surprise) I support AA in government contracting when other methods to achieve more minority participation fail.

**Why is it that conservatives do not want black people to enjoy the mainstream and utilize the resources of this country in the way everyone else does......why is it like Faheem or Noah asked that the external strategy is used to replace the internal strategy instead of complimenting it? Would'nt you like to see blacks abuse tax dollars and be hired for high paying jobs as mediocre performers just like white people are? like the brother in JBHE said......the time for AA to end is when you find an equal number of highly paid mediocre black people as you do white in this country...and he "ain't" never lied.........blackCon's like to defer to whites too much for me....I'm not going to ever agree with the burden of being black......where we are supposed to put eveything into this country but take nothing from it......this is a country where reagean castigated poor blacks as subhuman....but allowed war profiteering via a huge defense buildup at the expense of social programs to aid the poor relegated to as much by adverse policies.......I do not get it........

quote:

What kind of drivel is this? Again, it's almost too simplistic and lame for comment.

I am sorry chilewillow.

I started out on the wrong foot with you.

I realize that, as with my relationship with Noah, the arrogance contained with in you based on our conflicts will not allow you to give me a fair hearing on what I have to say.

I said in my post that I was going to be a multipost solution STARTING FROM THE BASE and working OUTWARD.

If this is SIMPLISTIC --- GOOD. Some times a SIMPLY PLAN IS THE BEST.

A good basketball coach starts with the BASICS and builds upon them - See Coach Carter.

I hope that AT LEAST IN THIS THREAD you can EITHER CRITICALLY ANALYZE MY IDEAS from an ADULT level or refrain from making comments.

quote:

Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

quote:

What kind of drivel is this? Again, it's almost too simplistic and lame for comment.

I am sorry chilewillow.

I started out on the wrong foot with you.

I realize that, as with my relationship with Noah, the arrogance contained with in you based on our conflicts will not allow you to give me a fair hearing on what I have to say.

I said in my post that I was going to be a multipost solution STARTING FROM THE BASE and working OUTWARD.

If this is SIMPLISTIC --- GOOD. Some times a SIMPLY PLAN IS THE BEST.

A good basketball coach starts with the BASICS and builds upon them - See Coach Carter.

I hope that AT LEAST IN THIS THREAD you can EITHER CRITICALLY ANALYZE MY IDEAS from an ADULT level or refrain from making comments.

I really wish that I could, RF, but you know... there just isn't a right foot.

And as I said, as long as I have a member-id at AA.org, I'm just not responsible for myself.

Your post on this topic is just a lot of jargon and catch phrases that even you can't define. Sorry, it's just not worth a "fair" hearing, whatever that means.

I will pass along this one piece of advice, RF, free of charge.

The purpose of English, like all written and spoken languages, is communication. Towards that end, simplicity is ALWAYS best.

It is the writer or speaker's responsibility to make him/her self understood, not vice versa. Why? Because the speaker or writer is presenting the idea or describing the event.

Do try to avoid jargon and ten syllable words. It only make you seem like an idiot. Also, speak or write in the active voice, not passive. If you don't know what that means, look it up.

Look at the simplicity of that last sentence; the meaning is clear.

And thank you for the therapeutic analysis. You didn't tell us you had a degree in psychology as well as child killing.

But I promise I will try to work on my arrogance if you promise to work on your spelling and grammar. How's that for compromise? Oh, did you tell Noah he was arrogant, also? Do you want me to pass that along to him?

Sadly, we are not going to have a relationship, RF. For me, it would be like an intellectual cauterization.

I will, however, offer this one, tiny, tiny critique. But you only get one. Don't get greedy.

Your initial post on this topic sounded... umm, well, just a little bit like the old, tired male anthem of "a women's place is in the home". But you know, that's just my interpretation. It's probably not what you meant.

Oh, and one more thing, RF. Change your member-id. It sounds so pompous and judgmental. I mean, who in the hell do you think you are? Whoops! Sorry, it just slipped out.

Okay, quid pro quo time. I helped you, now you help me.

I noticed in your post on the other topic that one of your claims to fame is INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY. The capitalization is yours, not mine.

Please forgive me, but I'm going to assume that you have some knowledge of networking. I'm not talking about chatting with your neighbor over the fence, but computer networking.

Since MBM won't delete my member-id, might I prevail upon you to do so? It's a simple request and if I am unable to log on in an hour or so, I will be ever so grateful. I will consider your debt for the English lesson and the critique paid in full.

Or look at it this way, RF. If I'm left with a member-id, I will continue to trash your posts. So I'm only thinking of you.

Kind regards,

CW

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chilewillow,

quote:

Originally posted by chilewillow:
Again, it's almost too simplistic and lame for comment.

quote:

The purpose of English, like all written and spoken languages, is communication. Towards that end, simplicity is ALWAYS best.

You are now telling me that "simplicity" is always best. Above you condemned me for being "simplistic".

Are you a woman? Or do you just like the word "simplistic"?

Just giving respects:

Affirmative Action's Arthur Fletcher Dies

Published July 13, 2005 at 5:09 PM CDT

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Arthur Fletcher, an adviser to Republican presidents and an early booster of affirmative action, died of natural causes Tuesday at his Washington home. He was 80. Fletcher served as an adviser to Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan and George H.W. Bush.

As an official in Nixon's Labor Department, Fletcher in 1969 administered the "revised Philadelphia plan," which set and enforced equal opportunity employment standards for companies with federal contracts and their labor unions.

After that, Ford, Reagan and Bush appointed him to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, which he chaired from 1990 to 1993.

Fletcher, dubbed "the father of affirmative action," was also a delegate to the United Nations, executive director of the United Negro College Fund, owner of consulting and food-services businesses and the first black candidate for statewide office in Washington.

He was born in Phoenix, Ariz., his father a career military man. He grew up in California, Arizona, Oklahoma and Kansas, graduating in 1950 from Washburn University in Topeka.

Fletcher was shot in World War II, where he fought in an Army tanker division for Gen. George Patton, friends said.

Before entering politics, he was a defensive end for the Baltimore Colts - one of that professional football team's first black players - and the Los Angeles Rams.

Fletcher is survived by his wife, Bernyce Hassan-Fletcher, three children and numerous grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

Part 2) Black Children

After listening to the radio special that was broadcast on Monday in support of the "Anti-Gang" summit held locally this week I am more assured than ever that the CHILDREN that is produced as a result of that which I have detailed in part 1 are vital to the correction of what ever stands before us.

In this radio show I felt the pain of children who live absent a solid structure that protects them as much as possible from negative environmental and cultural forces.

Absent a solid structure to guide them they will be attracted to or forced to enter gangs. These gangs are like a cancer in that they attack the host community that they live within and serve to KILL THE HOST and cause great pain as the host declines.

The infrastructure and knowledge of self as outlined in part one is critical and needs to be projected upon our children.

We all know our history of slavery and oppression endured in this country and this world over the past 500 years. In my view rather than looking at the grip that Slavery/Jim Crow and Racism have to STOP US we need to begin to look at the TRANSFORMATIVE POWER that a solid culture, the communication of proper living and the respect for the people within our community have to change our long term condition.

In my view a baby born today should not be seen as a victim of slavery in the past that defines what he can achieve even before he is born. We need to look at the culture that we operate within today that exposes this black child on how he can attain his maximum potential as this culture ASSISTS HIM IN MAKING DECISIONS AND PRIORITIZATIONS with regards to things that come his way throughout his life.

The transformation in the Black community will be defined by what we are able to convice our people to CAST ASIDE because in our walk through the desert the weight of those material items which add weight to our load but that don't produce any nutrition for us to endure may end up allowing us to die on the unchartered road along the way in our journey.

A child largely a product of the environment in which he is raised. How then do we turn to our traditional enemies to provide us with the resources necessary to create a favorable environment and later rise up to mount a great competition against him? It simply is not going to happen regardless of how many laws you pass.

The least that we can do is to insure that our children maintain the minimum level of academic achievement that is required for them to function in our society. Our challenge as a culture comes up when a child who is talented in one specific area is below the threshold in his academic attributes. Our current lack of direction would have us to put asside the cornerstone and have him to pursue his physical development rather than his mental. As thousands of others who stand behind him in the pathway take note of the prioritization that was made in this case they will simply follow suit because it is seen that we are not serious in our mandates.

The one who was allowed to slip under the wire has caused many more to trip over the wire when they come along.

You keep talking about children......to me as some rhetorical BS only....but why is it that black conservatives work to limit the college and professional opportunities for adults who are out of grade school and in the adult world NOW? They are not going back to grade school and black conservatives know this....yet they work to reduce opportunities for black ADULTS in the meantime. To show you that it is a bunch of BS, why would conservatives be against the remedial courses that bridge the gaps in K-12 schools and bring black kids up to speed? And yes they are against it.....look it up......the bottom line is....racist whites know that fighting AA was going to give them the reduced numbers that happened after bans on AA was implemented. That was their goals....and to see black people look the other way and agree with them on the issue as if that was not the intent of the racists or that the lowered numbers that are happening RIGHT NOW are nothing to fret about......fucks me up with you blackCon's.....ya'll try to play that cognitive dissonance shit like the lowered numbers were unintended consequences.....but blackCon's and racist right-wingers knew that schit was going to happen....


so again I ask:
but why is it that black conservatives work in conjunction with the racist right to limit the college and professional opportunities for adults who are out of grade school and in the adult world NOW? Why would a black person logically support something that reduces opportunities for blacks who are adults now?

quote:

To show you that it is a bunch of BS, why would conservatives be against the remedial courses that bridge the gaps in K-12 schools and bring black kids up to speed?

The OPPOSITION AGAINST REMEDIAL COURSES CAN BE TRUMPED BY INSURING THAT THE HIGH SCHOOL COURSES THAT THESE STUDENTS TAKE THE FIRST TIME EFFECTIVELY INSTRUCT THEM ON WHAT THEY NEED TO KNOW IN THE FUTURE.

CF,

You never answered my questions regarding the adults which proves that there is no logical reason for a black person to be supporting the right.....I know there is no logical answer.....you know there is no logical answer and I just keep stretching this out to show you that you will never answer it directly. You keep coming up with what needs to be done in the future but keep skipping the questions regarding what is being done now to reduce opportunities for black ADULTS. So once a black person goes to a shitty school I guess they should be condemned in their adult life for what they had no control over as a kid? man listen to what you just said and what your philosophy entails....youare basically saing until the schools are good....f-k black people and anything else used in the past to accomodate the gap in school quality....once again....get off of the kids.....how is it logical to support something that reduces opportunities for black ADULTS as a BLACK ADULT...in the PRESENT?

Damn, CONSERVO (aka Renaldo; aka CONstruct~)...
To think that at one point and time I actually bragged that you had the ability to speak to this topic and put forth an actual Black CONservative Agenda...

Well, let's just say, whatever reputation I staked that claim on has been utterly ruined by your complete (and evasive) ineptitude shown here.

All this talk by CONservatives about The Black Family and I've yet to see any "critical analysis" of why the The Black Family is in the state it's in. You know, like actually knowing what the actual problem(s) is/are before pretending to propose cure-all solutions as if "marriage" in a country (and a people) where divorce is high can be called anything close to an agenda like "solutioin". While admirable, it really doesn't speak to the socio-politic aspects of the question.

I realize it's a lot to address but I think someone who pretends to be so eager to answer the question would/could have treated it more seriously than saying something as simple as: We Need To More Black Marriages. Yeah. That really sounds like an Agenda. Something approaching a (complete) platform that speaks to/about the Black Conservative vision for Black America and the objectives they (you) wish to accomplish by way of your ideology.

For your convenience, I have reposted the the original question-set:

I'm really interested in understanding the black conservative agenda. What is it? What is your vision for black folks? What are your objectives? How do conservative principles better serve black America than other perspectives? Why should blacks embrace conservatism, which has traditionally been inimical to anything favoring us?

I would appreciate a more thoughtful answer, particularly one that deals with social-political policy ideas which I think was the point in the first place.

quote:

it really doesn't speak to the socio-politic aspects of the question.

First of all I am building my case from CLOSE TO HOME, OUTWARD.

Maybe YOU need to tune into a town hall meeting among TEENAGED BLACK KIDS. When you listen to the pain that they experiences you had better believe that the absence of STABLE FAMILIES is one major source of PAIN IN THEIR LIVES. How can we expect to have longterm change in our community when the people who will LIVE IN THE FUTURE in our TRANSFORMED STATE and cut off at the knees from the start?

It sounds to me that you are arguing for ARGUMENT SAKE. Rather than to add POSITIVE REDIRECTION of my points, putting forth your own strategy that works - you trash what I have wrote.

One thing that I believe that we both can agree on, a rare point indeed, is that WHATEVER IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW AIN'T WORKING.

You are correct that the "presence of marriage" alone is not going to provide a magical fix. The problem today is the lack of respect and civility among people who are in close proximity to each other. The man who showers attention upon the female upon meeting her because he is attracted to her and seeks to have sex with her is often a changed man if and when that woman gets pregnant, they don't have a formal relationship and she decides to carry this child to term. When a judge has to step into the middle of their business and enforce his support of HIS children and the natural conflicts that brew from her resentment THIS is not a healthy environment for our children to grow up in.

I can speak from personal experience that the commitment to a relationship that you have a pace that extends to the rest of your life has you to COMPRIMISE, work for the long term best interest and KEEPS YOU COMING HOME WHEN YOU ARE READY TO GIVE UP.

Since you are so quick to dismiss this as "simplistic" please put forth an alternative plan that achieves the creation of a strong environment for the people who will one day take over the controls of our race?

Again - today's emphasis and tollerance is FAILING US.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Constructive Feedback,

##################
[Rappers] are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing sh--, that's trying to get a n---a for his money. These are two separate things. First of all, we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC going hard on black girls. We are rappers that have these songs coming from our minds and our souls that are relevant to what we feel. I will not let them mutha----as say we in the same league as him."
Snoop Dogg 2007 - the words of a man who travels the world and on occasion is the first representation of a Black man in the flesh that some of his fans at the concert have ever seen in their lives.

One thing that I believe that we both can agree on, a rare point indeed, is that WHATEVER IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW AIN'T WORKING.---Constructive Feedback

Maybe that is where this 'agenda' should begin.

What is the list of things that can/do account for the 'not working?'

I submit that a major part of that misconstruction is the continuation of 'color' as the definition of who we are, and thus who our children are.

'Color' only defines WHAT we are.

And...it does so in the overall context of the color-based construction of the society that is designed to repress us; in order to elevate others; specifically European Americans.

The solution is to select the definition of ourselves, and therefore our children that declares WHO we are.

PEACE

Jim Chester

CONSERVO, your AGENDA please!

Thank you!

Also, for your convenience:

AGENDA
1 : a list or outline of things to be considered or done
2 : an underlying often ideological plan or program

Please note that the term speaks to "A List Of Things"... you know, in the PLURAL. Also, you will note that you have not presented a "PLAN" as to how we reinvigorate, rescue or recreate healthy Black Families. All you've done is say the obvious.

But this is your platform. It is up to you to present your AGENDA as a Black CONservative. Instead of ramblings and rants just focus on direct AGENDA ITEMS (that's with an 'S')