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Founder |
OK - let's really tackle this Herculean issue.
What's the deal in our community with children being born to unwed mothers? In 2001, 68% of all African American children were born to single mothers. Why is this the case? In 1890, despite many having suffered through the ravages of slavery, over 80% of all African American families were headed by a married mother and father. How did we end up where we are today? Solutions? |
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A2 |
It was a different era then MBM. People hadn't lost their minds nor were they as deviant as today (well maybe some people; can't forget those lynchings, etc.) The respect and love factors were in place; black men and women were different. There was no pornography, TV, sex, sex, sex, MTV, BET, drugs nor rock and roll. Folks were willing to work it out back in the day. Now it's every man for himself, everything else/everyone else be damned!! (IMHO; can't forget to put that in
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A1 |
I think when you start from the premise that every individual is seeking to behave and act in such a way as to maximize his or her self interest, then the question becomes what is the benefit or reward of this behavior that results in the side effect of OOWB? Sure, on a collective bases OOWB is not rewarding, but on an individual bases, the behavior and attitude that creates OOWB thus must be rewarding or people would not do such unless forced or compelled by society. Thus social constraint is eroding which allows people to pursue the temptations of the flesh, which are often more pleasurabe than rightousness.
It goes without saying that births are the product of copulation and that births to unwed mothers are the product of fornication. However, it is not likely that copulation rates or fornication rates vary significantly between racial groups in America that would result in the manifestation of huge disparities in OOWB. Moreover, class may be a bigger correlation than race in high incidence of OOWB, but since the black poverty rate is nearly 3 times the rate for whites, the problem then, therefore, seems endemic to blacks, when its actually more endemic to the POOR. Thus : 9% White poverty = 26% white OOWB. 25% black poverty = 68% black OOWB. Consequently, the ratio of poverty to OOWB between whites and blacks in America are about the SAME, which is 1 to 2.88 for whites and 1 to 2.72 for blacks. That is to say that for every 1% of poverty in America, the percent of OOWB increases by 2.8%. This shows a greater correlation to poverty and OOWB than race and OOWB. Also, one must look at the erosion of the collective social structure of America, which affects the poor more acutely. We live in a nation that champion's individualism. But the equal and opposite consequence of promoting individualism is the demotion of the social interest and goals of the collective. Thus, social and cultural normative behavior and institutions such as family and religion are allowed to take a back seat an individuals self interest and freedom to pursue what makes the individual FEEL GOOD, if not the collective. Consequently, the social stigma and ostracism that once resulted from individuals who transgressed against social and cultural normative behavior no longer serves as a force to restrain human individualistic self gratifying desires. The result is that people who want to have babies outside of marriage has the right to do so in a nation that prides itself on INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM. As a side note, I would like to differentiate between OOWB to teenage mothers vs OOWB to mature adult women. The former has been stagnating over the last 20 years, while the latter has seen HUGE increases over the last 20 years. The former is also more damaging to the future of the offspring than the latter. Many educated and middleclass single women are simply choosing to have children, even though they are not married. With the shortage of men in the black community to match with educated and talented sisters, these sisters who want to have children are left with the option of settling for marrying a man that is not her equal in income or values or simply getting pregnant and raising the kids as a single women. Also, fewer men today WANT to get married and settle down. Thus, more and more women are choosing to go it alone as opposed to marrying a person who will simply increase the drama in her life. Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( Noah The African in America |
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A1 |
I think single, never married parenthood is an act of selfishness. When people think only about themselves, they make irrational decisions that strongly damage others, i.e. the kids produced, the community, the nation, the race, etc. I think that is the main change from then to now.
 *********************************************************** Who in the hell left the gate open???  Somebody put roots on me  G.O.M.A.B., H.O.B.O., M.O.B., and B.B.H. Rules of life!!! |
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A1 |
quote: *********************************************************** Who in the hell left the gate open??? Somebody put roots on me G.O.M.A.B., H.O.B.O., M.O.B., and B.B.H. Rules of life!!! |
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A1 |
ARe you disagreeing that a child born to a 15 year old high school student, who is a child herself, has an equivalent social effect as a child born to a 30 year old college educated accontant with good income?
I never stated that children born to mature women were NOT damaging. I say they were LESS damaging to society. Furthermore, there is a greater correlation with inmates and poverty than single parenthood and inmates. Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( Noah The African in America |
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A1 |
quote: *********************************************************** Who in the hell left the gate open??? Somebody put roots on me G.O.M.A.B., H.O.B.O., M.O.B., and B.B.H. Rules of life!!! |
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Village Idiot |
By everyone's admission, single young women having Daddyless babies is doom for many, if not most, those children. THIS is the overwhelmingly primary cause of poverty, criminal behavior, and lack of morality in our community. These 'mothers' handicap their own children right from the start. The community needs to get more concerned about the lack of planning and seemingly the lack of 'caring' about our children's futures.
Life is tough enough sometimes without the additional handicapping of children by so many not seeking the best possible home environments for them. And as all these so-called stats presented here show, its CERTAINLY a huge cause for concern. My question for everyone is why NONE of the usual 'civil rights' or Black advocacy groups even have the courage to admit this problem, let alone attempt to rectify or address it. What are we trying to hide this for? Is reparations more important than the well being and family-lives of our own children??? Until this is addressed by the Black community, higher rates of poverty, crime, and stupidity will permeate our streets. Thats just a fact. So be wary of those groups and orgs who do not mention this issue, they are not on the path to uplifting our community or helping anyone. |
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A1 |
Come one now Radio. You say that not all poor people are criminals, thus you discredit the influence of poverty on crime, due to the fact that 85% of people in prisons come from single parent households. Yet, you failed to mention that NOT ALL PEOPLE FROM SINGLE PARENTS HOUSEHOLD END UP IN PRISONS, just as all poor people do not end up their.
Poverty more likely exacerbates the phenomenon of single parenthood. Thus, poverty influences both crime and the phenomenon of single parenthood. Single parenthood does not create crime via poverty. Moreover, poverty and criminality existed in this nation long before single parenthood became such a problem. Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( Noah The African in America |
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A1 |
quote: 85% is a much larger percent than 50% which would equate out to not difference, or a 50-50 chance with of without a single parent. 85%, as the stat that I linked shows, is a big number and must be seen as significant. Poverty may 'assist' in the 'development' of a criminal, but that 85% stat must be considered as well. I think that the lack of extra parent, esp since 'two parents are better than one'. Crime has been a problem long before singleparenthood was, but there relation to the Blk community and it's overall decline must be noted. Please read the link i pposted. *********************************************************** Who in the hell left the gate open??? Somebody put roots on me G.O.M.A.B., H.O.B.O., M.O.B., and B.B.H. Rules of life!!! |
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Village Idiot |
Well Noah, lets take a look at some of your 'sweeping' statements and examine them.
Do you believe that a 'one' income household has more chance to climb from poverty than a 'two' income household? Do you also believe its just a coincidence that so many criminals happen to have had no father to help raise them correctly? In the 1950's, to take just one example, we had the following demographics: Less overall crime in black communities. FAR less income levels in black communities. And FAR FAR FAR less 'single' parent households. So, the correlation is hardly between low incomes and 'crime, nor is the correlation between low income and hyper-sexuality amongst young girls. I'd say thats pretty solid evidence that single young mothers putting sexual antics above the care of their own Daddyless children, along with the lacking of a concept of stable, secure environments in our homes for children, and the obvious 'morality' issues this entails, dooms far too many children to lives of struggle and futility. Our children DESERVE the best we can offer them. Does anyone say that those 68% of our children have been given the BEST chance to grow, learn, and prosper by these young 'mothers' out there?? I don't. Why do WE tolerate this???? |
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B2 |
quote: What exactly is the problem here? Are you asking that black people should follow the rules laid down by white people before we have children? That is what married in the eyes of the white man means. On the other hand if we are to follow GOD laid down rules in the Bible no laws are being broken here. The only thing most of these so called "unmarried" women are doing in the eyes of God is practising is Polygamy. Polygamy in the sense that many of these women are in serial relationships with multiple partners. The case is similar to the Samaritan Jesus met at the well and asked her for water. He pointed out that she had more than one husband obviously because she was having a continuing ongoing sexual relationships with more than one partner at the time. So from a Biblical view point carry on girls, grow the Black population because for those who don't know this black people of African origin are the minority in the world and we need to catch up quickly  _____________________________ Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/index_nation.html |
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A1 |
quote: i agree. i think the lack of civil rights action on this is linked to it's [single parenthood] deeply rooted and widespread effects on families. How can The NAACP, led by Kwesi Mfume, speak out against single parent hood, when he himself has five out of wrdlock kids, with five different women...how could Jesse speak out against it?? This is a very deep issue and no simple solutions are possible. *********************************************************** Who in the hell left the gate open??? Somebody put roots on me G.O.M.A.B., H.O.B.O., M.O.B., and B.B.H. Rules of life!!! |
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A2 |
First of all I find it somewhat ironic that this issue is being discussed by men when the majority of single parents are women. So let's start getting real. Most men can say whatever they want about it, but the fact of the matter is that women and their children are affected by this.
I see a few problems with single parenthood of young, uneducated teenage girls. The first problem I see are young teenage boys and predatory men. These two groups I just mentioned usually don't take responsibility for caring for children because they simply don't care about the girls they've slept with. Why don't they care? They spend too much time watching BET and not enough time getting parental guidance. Another problem is teenage girls have a lack of self-esteem. This is brought on by the disrespect taught to them by society. This is nothing new to American culture. Another factor into this is that girls are now being taught at an early age to be sexy and having sex makes you mature. Again watching that garbage on BET and not enough parental guidance. However, having a baby out of wedlock is nothing new in African-america. Let's also keep that real. There are babies born to uwed mothers in every generation. The reality of it is, like other things in our community, we try to hide the fact. Slavery and Jim Crow have made us a very suppressive people. The way that these things were dealt with back then were through the African concept of extended family. For some reason, we began to buy into the white notion of individuality. This is when our families began to break apart. We ceased to see ourselves as a family unit. If we want to turn things around we need to look at ourselves as a family unit. I'll end this post with my signature file. Our people have made the mistake of confusing the methods with the objectives. As long as we agree on objectives, we should never fall out with each other just because we believe in different methods, or tactics, or strategy. We have to keep in mind at all times that we are not fighting for separation. We are fighting for recognition as free humans in this society Malcolm X, 1965 |
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A1 |
You all fail to recognize that drug offenses and convictions is what have swelled the ranks of blacks in prison. Now I guess you two are going to postulate the drug activity is endemic to single parent households, when drug activity is actually a problem with, poor, rich, white, black, single parent and married couples. Yet, enforcement is concentrated in poor black communities and thus, those they get disproportional caught are those that get disproportionately targeted and that is why the ranks of prisons are filled with blacks, from poor single family households. The proliferation of drugs into the black community coincided with the rise of the black prison population. The fact that black prison population rose when out of wedlock births have rose is coincidence and not correlation. The rise of both were fueled by the large supply of black poor that was inherited from a past of slavery and Jim Crow oppression and discrimination. Thus, being disproportionately poor, blacks become disproportionately vulnerable to opportunities and temptations of the ILLEGAL drug economy, as a means to escape poverty. Simultaneously, changers were taking place in the morality of the NATION, which had a greater impact on the economically and socially weakest citizens. Thus, OOWB increased among the white poor at the same rate that it increased among the black poor, but since blacks were three times poorer than whites, the problem appeared to be particular to blacks, when it is actually NOT. It is endemic to the poor, more so than to blacks.
Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( Noah The African in America |
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A1 |
Furthermore, tO postulate that OOWB causes poverty is to postulate that marriage CURES poverty, when this is not true. Marriage in and of itself does not PRODUCE INCOME and therefore cannot be linked to reducing or creating poverty. If you take an out of work women and marry her to an out of work man, how much income do they now produce as a couple that they did not produce as single individuals? What a about a workingwomen marrying an unemployed man, does that increase income? What about a man that earns enough to take care of himself and a women who earns just enough to take care of herself, getting married, what extra income is available to the child?
How about the people who cohabitate as couples, but are not married, but have children together. How does this single parenthood create poverty? What about the single parent mothers whose children daddy pays a substantial child support payment and who regularly visits and nurtures the child? There are so many variable here that I could go on for quite some time. What about the married of two irresponsible adults? Will two irresponsible and unfit parents produce a responsible fit child simply by virtue of being married? You guys are do not understand the dynamics of the reality of what goes on daily in the life of many. Truth is always fraught with impediments. Truth agreed with is a blessed duet. Truth confronting beloved vice will sever relationships, perpetrate flight, and uncover murderous rage. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( Noah The African in America |
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A1 |
quote: there are many Blacks from those same communities that NEVER have been arrested or use/sell drugs. The 'singleparenthoodness' is a factor because it is so widespread. It's the same concept when people want to use race to determine the cause of things not related to race. Single parenting is a core problem in the Blk community and adds to the overall decline of Blk progress. Why is a single mom seen as a 'hero' or 'strong'?? Why is having an OOW birth seen as a sign of honor?? *********************************************************** Who in the hell left the gate open??? Somebody put roots on me G.O.M.A.B., H.O.B.O., M.O.B., and B.B.H. Rules of life!!! |
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A1 |
quote: Well if this economy didn't suck with that idiot running the country, then maybe you would have a point, but job are scarce and so that single mom, with the 'accountant job' is possibly jobless. And since she is NOT married, there isn't a second income to 'fall back on', so she and the child falls to poverty. Read below more money, less poverty Nevertheless, the median incomes of families maintained by black single mothers ($16,879) and single fathers ($25,654) were only 37% and 57%, respectively, of the median for black married-couple families ($45,372). White single mothers ($22,999) and fathers ($34,802) had median family incomes 44% and 67% of the median for white married-couple families ($52,098) single parent income vs. married incomes *********************************************************** Who in the hell left the gate open??? Somebody put roots on me G.O.M.A.B., H.O.B.O., M.O.B., and B.B.H. Rules of life!!! |
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