I have a question, there is so much tension between black women and black men on this board. Do black men in general resent black women. She is more acceptable in society , they has more opportunities to succeed does that get to black men ,especially those of us out he scrambling to make a living for ourselves? How in the climate of indivdiualism can we productively address these issues. IF you look at whats going on across this country is can bring you to tears. It seems it a total breakdown in our community. This may be the first generation since Reconstruction to actually be going backwards. What do you guys have to say about this!

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
I have a question, there is so much tension between black women and black men on this board. Do black men in general resent black women. She is more acceptable in society , they has more opportunities to succeed does that get to black men ,especially those of us out he scrambling to make a living for ourselves? How in the climate of indivdiualism can we productively address these issues. IF you look at whats going on across this country is can bring you to tears. It seems it a total breakdown in our community. This may be the first generation since Reconstruction to actually be going backwards. What do you guys have to say about this!

More acceptable now? Black women have always been more acceptable than black men since we've been here. Black women were cleaning after white people's homes since slavery and afterwards during Reconstruction and Jim Crow. Raised/nursed (i.e. breastfed) their children as well as her own...and sometimes at the same time. We knew this long before we knew of Willie Lynch and his letter, if both ever existed (but that's another topic).

Zakar, I don't feel tension between the black women on this board. I love Ebony, ATP, Khalliqa, Negrospiritual and even Oshun although her radical perspective is sometimes annoying, it is unique and thought provoking.

Now they may have tension with me but I don't really feel it if they do.

Outside of the board in terms of general america, honestly I think black men still have a better chance to succeed in terms of career elevation, although I believe women are more accepted and therefore more numerous in lower and middle positions.

I think our issue is less about tension and more about the other social pressures that are crackin against black men.

But brother Dell arent you married to a white woman?? lol. Sorry for the low blow,I couldnt resist. No harm,

honestly I think black men still have a better chance to succeed in terms of career elevation, although I believe women are more accepted and therefore more numerous in lower and middle positions.

I disagree, think about it, more black women are graduating from college than black men, more post graduate degrees etc, so how can that statement hold up?

Speaking for myself only, I do not resent black women for anything. Indeed, it seems rather bizarre, as does the "tension" that exists on this board. This tension is not something that I experience in my daily life, and as such I have difficulty viscerally connecting with the animosity that I see exhibited here from time to time.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kresge,

Truth is undoubtedly the sort of error that cannot be refuted because it was hardened into an unalterable form in the long baking process of history... Michel Foucault

Hope begets many children illegitimately and prematurely. Allie M. Frazier

Beware the terrible simplifiers... Jacob Burckhardt

Speaking for myself only, I do not resent black women for anything. Indeed, it seems rather bizarre, as does the "tension" that exists on this board. This tension is not something that I experience in my daily life, and as such I have difficulty viscerally connecting with the animosity that I see exhibited her from time to time.
i know you ment here, instead hor her, but I must admit i see and hear it all the time from brothers and sisters here in the DC area as well as experiencing it quite abit myself. Especially in the various positions I've held over the years

Yeah Zakar, but I have three black daughters and three black sisters

I am going to do a 180 after reflection and some what agree with you Zakar. I think the imbalance between the black male and black female because of racism and historical inequities can create a subconscious resentment of black female success.

However I think the resentment would flow from the woman towards the man as opposed to vice versa.

Oshun will obviously disagree but I feel men are supposed to be the natural protectors of family and culture and women are supposed to be the emotional guard and nurturer of the family.

In our communities now due to societal pressures, man black men are forced consciously or subconsciously to shirk there masculine responsibility putting the burden on the women. I think women resent this.

An ancedote would be this: How many times have you heard a man say he resents a woman versus how many times you have heard a women say she resents a man? In my experience I have heard women express resentment towards a man or men in general way more than the opposite.

your daughters and sistas dont count they love you unconditionally,lol, nah but seriously. I dont hear brothers use the term resent, but they basically say it in so many words. The way the economy is shaped and the way young black males are treated in the educational and social enviroment forces them into opposing positions unless they are conscious of whats going on . This is of course my belielf. I think black women resent white male authority directly and subconsciously resent black men's positon as it relates to that power. I think black men resent white male authority and as a consequence resents black women because they are more acceptable within that power structure. Its like your woman going to another man for things she needs because she doesnt feel you are capable of giving it to her.

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
I have a question, there is so much tension between black women and black men on this board. Do black men in general resent black women. She is more acceptable in society , they has more opportunities to succeed does that get to black men ,especially those of us out he scrambling to make a living for ourselves? How in the climate of indivdiualism can we productively address these issues. IF you look at whats going on across this country is can bring you to tears. It seems it a total breakdown in our community. This may be the first generation since Reconstruction to actually be going backwards. What do you guys have to say about this!

I don't think it is 'tension' here. I think it is more related to the fact that men and women argue differently. Men mostly argue logically, i.e. ddouble asking women to provide facts to their negative opinions of black men [none yet, maybe somedayone of them will post something ], Bro Dell posting statistics that contradict alot of the repeated non-sense many black women {on set of stats seemed to indicate that Black women were likely to date Interracially, if the price was right [his income was high enough] and even though many have said they were against it or less attracted to other races, i.e. golddigging is paramount} [on and off line...i.e. Essence] have said. Women tend to make their arguments off of very emotional [often non-logical] ties to the topic, i.e...

quote:

Originally posted by Yemaya:
I don't know what black men see in white women any way? I love the many ways black men do me. From the way they talk, the way they kiss, the way they walk everything. Sisters are on par with brothers, the average white woman lacks in so many areas even on her best day. Brothers that are married to white women, quiet as kept, have lots of complaints; especially if they've dated sisters in at least one long term relationship. The black men I know who are married to black women are very happy, very.
So when I see a black man with a white woman, I automatically think "He can do better".

.

As far as acceptance in the larger society, I think many white people are still scared of black men, this will obviously effect this black male elevation in the larger society, esp. in the business/employment setting. Black women, whether rightly or wrongly, are viewed, by the same larger society, as mostly non-threating.

In closing, I think what one might be see as battle between the sexes in our race, is merely Black men FINALLY checking the BS and at the same time holding sisters accountable for their own actions as they relate to the results that we all see in the Black Society

I don't resent Black women. I occasionally disagree with them though.

On this board, I think some personalities clash because they are more alike than many of us care to admit. On top of that, some of us are intentionally provocative and inflammatory. Additionally, message board debate tends to promote an "I'm right so you're wrong" mentality. We have a few members that I admire for being able to consistently avoid that pitfall.

We all have experiences that shape our perceptions and the filters we put on actions and events. The problem is that most of us have difficulty simply acknowledging that having differing life filters is not a matter of right & wrong or base vs. enlightened. We have to learn how to integrate our perspective and those of other people into our daily interactions and stop behaving like this is the world according to [insert your name here].

In the larger society, I believe the notion of gender roles & expectations are changing so rapidly that friction is bound to occur.

quote:

We have to learn how to integrate our perspective and those of other people into our daily interactions and stop behaving like this is the world according to [HERU].

GUILTY!!!

Personally, I absolutely love all the sisters here on AA.org. (even fabulous whom I'm still trying to figure out) They all bring so much color and insight, through their opinions. The tension arises because of the varying strengths in our opinions, and how much we are willing to compromise those opinions. The tension is NOT animosity based however. I believe the tension is closer to being love based, because our opinions reflect a healthy concern for one anothers attitude towards our plight.

looks like some brown nose'ing going on around here

quote:

looks like some brown nose'ing going on around here

Ha...Heru is looking for date

Didn't know I had it in me did you?

You guys are just jealous

I think that are a few members that resent women... I would even go so far as to say that some dislike women, especially Black women...

Overall though, I think that there is a great deal of respect for women on this board... Not all perspectives are agreed with, but a healthy respect is there... JMHO

I know there are Black men who resent Black women under the assumption that life is so great for us and so on, but how many? I don't know what it is, but the demographics of the board is different from that of my real life. THANK GOD.

The population of illusional men (in that way) seems a hell of a lot lower offline. Sure I often hear men bitch things women don't have to put up with (both real and fake), but they often seem to also have a degree of understanding of what women have to put up with that they don't.

I don't get the idea that as many of them are looking at women as caricatures to be repremanded, degraded, or ignored. The resentment, when it is there, just isn't as visible in the way it is here.

When there, the resentment usually comes in the form of, I can't stand loud Black women, or, Black women are too hard to get.

The complaints are different.

However, this might be because I'm mostly around the working-class. Men probably aren't going to complain that women are stealing their opportunities because anyone can get a job at the mall, ConEd, in construction, security, as health aids or as packers.

quote:

Originally posted by ZAKAR:
But brother Dell arent you married to a white woman?? lol. Sorry for the low blow,I couldnt resist. No harm,

honestly I think black men still have a better chance to succeed in terms of career elevation, although I believe women are more accepted and therefore more numerous in lower and middle positions.

I disagree, think about it, more black women are graduating from college than black men, more post graduate degrees etc, so how can that statement hold up?

Statistically, Dell is right.

Because Black women are so much more likely to graduate from college and tend to have more stability in the workforce, researchers have a lot of difficulty understanding the degree to which Black women's glass-ceiling is low, especially in comparison to Black men. But as it stands, Black women still have to have more education and years of work experience than a Black man in order to have the same position in higher management and pay.

White-collar America is still a boys club.

You just don't hear about this issue (except from researchers and those pesky feminists) because our community is very good at ignoring issues concerning Black women. Especially if it's an issue that deflates the myth that Black women are walking on red carpet while scheming to keep the Black man down.

A Black woman can quote statistics all she wants, but if it doesn't uphold a Black woman myth, it's a waste of time.

I don't have any resentment towards women in person nor do I have any resentmen towards women here on AfricanAmerica.org. There are those that choose to assume I must hate women because I criticize their undesirable behavior but that doesn't mean I hate them. It's not even a love/hate relationship. I just believe in pointing out the negative qualities in women that other people have a tendency to marginalize or completely ignore and even go so far as to justify their undesirable behavior - as if women are incapable of being human just like men.

It's crazy to sit there and acuse someone of hate just because they don't like someone's behavior or comments. I love my mama to death but sometimes I hate the comments she makes. Sometimes I don't agree with what she says. Sometimes we even have heated arguments. OOoooh, that must obviously mean I hate her right? Hell no. If someone criticizes me for something they don't like about me I'm not going to assume they hate me. If someone has a difference of opinion I'm not going to log off and run away or go run and sneak somebody a PM and tell them how much I hate them or tell someone not to talk to that person but that goes on here.

What I do resent is being harrassed and insulted from day one but the same people that do the harrassing and insulting demand that I show them respect. I resent these one-sided conversations where some of these female members bash black men yet when a brother says something about a black woman, then the statement can't be true. It must be a lie or an exaggeration. It's as if the female members on this site want to monopolize aggrevation and disappointment they've experienced from the opposite sex.

I've seen brothers, as well as myself, admit to the wrongdoings of other black men but if a brother speaks on the wrongdoings of sisters all of a sudden everybody wants to disapear - nobody has a comment. Either that or some female busts into the thread and works vigorously at marginalizing the comments made about black women and counteract them with their own stories about what's wrong with black men.

I know I can't speak for every black man in North America but I don't deserve to carry the burden of guilt for something I did not do. I understand the pain sisters have gone through and are going through but that doesn't mean I should inherit all types of psychological punishment just because I'm a black man. That's like being thrown in jail because the prosecuting attorney couldn't find the right defendant. Brothers are taking a beating all the way around and in some cases even from our own sisters. It would feel good for once to talk to a sister and not have her be apprehensive, weary, doubtful, and cynical towards me because of something some other dude did.

quote:

Originally posted by ma'am:
The population of illusional men (in that way) seems a hell of a lot lower offline.

Away from the board, speaking with men in real life can be very refreshing..


yes....



Salaam...

quote:

Away from the board, speaking with men in real life can be very refreshing.

Are you saying I am not refreshing!

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Originally posted by Dell Gines:

quote:

Away from the board, speaking with men in real life can be very refreshing.

Are you saying I am not refreshing!

Okay... I'm laughing that was a good comeback...


No, sir.. I'm not saying you are not refreshing...

perhaps I should not be so specific, yes? Perhaps I should say... hmmmm...


Though I've had many pleasant conversations on the board here with men, sometimes removing oneself from the more bitter conversations is more readily available and accessible in my life outside of the board...


better?