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The Watcher |
 This is the source of most of my annoyance in the gender forums too Romulus. But I can only control me. It doesn't matter how compelling an argument is, if a person is determined to see it only their way, then it's time to move on after you've made your point as best as you're capable. I will admit that a good insult or zinger provides a stress release from time to time and the gender forums usually provide low-hanging fruit!  Thanks for a good topic Zakar!  ------------------------------ R.I.F. (Reading IS Fundamental)... "There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general: (1) Recklessness, which leads to destruction; (2) cowardice, which leads to capture; (3) a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults; (4) a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame; (5) over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble." -Sun Tzu |
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A2 |
I went to a little happy hour after work yesterday, and I realized something. Mind you this is a free affair with invites and fro 6 to 8pm you can get free top shelf liquor. Now as a Namibian brother and myself are posted up at the bar sippin, the crowd starts to get thicker and the area around the bar got crowed. See the key to the happy hour seen is to get you a position at the bar and hold it so you can have unlimited access to the bartender. Sistas start to come up and start giving the look like (arent you gonna move so I can get to the bar) of course we make room for the sistas and those that couldnt get to the bar we often passed the order to the bartender. Mind you not one ever said thank you and for some strange reason black women dont want to tip. Mind you the drinks are free so knowing this the sista get their drinks and turn and walk away. The bartender looks at me and i look at her, and shake my head. Im like dam you know the drinks are free, I mean top shelf drinks and you cant tip the bartender one dollar? One sister came up and asked me to order her a drink and I said sure , but you have to tip, she said why dont you tip her for me, Im just getting one drink and im leaving. Im like you wait in line just to come in get one drink and leave? She just didnt want to tip. I hate to say it but a lot of our young sistas dont give a dam about nobody but themselves. If you cant do nothing for them or if they cant benifit in some way they can act real salty. Anyway I just wanted to share that little episode with the bredren. There was some nice looking sistas there though attitudes and all,lol. I enjoyed my drinks and left.
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C2 |
Well said... "I find, in being black, a thing of "beauty"; like a joy; a strength; a secret cup of gladness." Beauty Ossie Davis |
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A2 |
I agree to a certain extent. I'm one of the few members on this site that will voice as well as stand by my opinions and statements as constructively as I possibly can but you have some people, particularly, some of these females that relentlessly attack, undermind, and propagandize like they're going out of their minds on this discussion board. At what point should one draw the line and accept the differences of opinions of other members instead of turning these conversations into a personal vendetta? Sure I can spit a drop of venom or two in some of these threads but I'm not going to go so far as to stalk and harrass certain members or even go so far as to probe the internet trying to dig up dirt on them (childish cyber ghetto drama) because we have conflicting interests. We're all intelligent, socially conscious and aware people on this board. We understand the issues facing both black men and women, therefore, we must equally and objectively acknowledge these issues instead of amplifying one side while marginalizing the other. Now I'm not saying we should act like sterile androids and conduct stagnent conversations. We can have high-spirited conversations but without turning the threads into plots to assassinate someone's character or to persecute an entire gender for the wrongdoings of a handful of people. I'd rather be hated for what I am than loved for what I'm not. - Chuck D. |
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C3 |
The type of animosity that you find on this board, you will find on all other message boards...forums seem to bring out the "best" in people. |
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C3 |
How could a conscious brother resent Black man resent the Black women? I listened to the theories promoted here and can not empathize with them. In my view a Black man who resents the Black women, resents himself and the race and shouldn't be trusted at all.
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B3 |
Amen! So refreshing to see the real! This point is exactly what many have been saying: How can you love yourself if you don't love your Black Woman? Talk is cheap and actions will show the true desires of the heart. "Wisdom Is Always A Real Woman!" "Don't talk about it: BE ABOUT IT!" "To BE One, ASK ONE!" -OES |
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D5 |
Hello. I have a problem, and I need help. I resent black women; I could use a stronger word, but I wish to show respect.
I didn't wake up one morning, and decide to feel this way - I've had experience after experience with black women with the worst attitudes (relatives, "friends", supermarket clerks, banks clerks, 311 operators, county workers, strangers on the street, in college, co-workers, public transportation, business clubs - we'll be here all day). Countless encounters with black women (be it intentional or unintentional) leave me asking the question: WHAT DID I DO TO HER? I'm a good guy, a regular working-class guy; I'm not a flirt, a thug, or a playa, and I don't try to finess my way though social situations by 'cool posing'- I'm a real person not a cartoon character. Intellectually, I know that all black women are not bitchy, but, unfortunately, the bad experiences grossly outweigh the good ones. I DESPARATELY DO NOT - I REPEAT: I DO NOT - WANT TO FEEL THIS WAY. I'm embarassed and disappointed in myself. I wish I was better than this; I wish I was smart enough to do this on my own, but I'm not. Call me an asshole, traitor, jack ass - call me whatever you want (maybe I deserve it). I don't want to be part of the problem anymore. Please help me, give me something - ANYTHING- that'll put me on the road to being a good & loving black man. God Bless You. |
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C3 |
Why be embarrassed? Why be disapointed? Theres no problem. If you feel this way about our women. We should simply part ways. You go yours we will be ok. |
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D5 |
I guess you're right Afro Saxon. I could be, yet, another brother that up & say "fuck it". But how do I rid myself of these venomous thoughts & predjudices towards black women, long after parting ways?
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Vanguard |
I think it may help you to do some serious self-analysis. You should consider that it might be something that you are doing that draws an antagonistic reaction out of Sisters. Contrary to the popular dramatization of the "thick-skinned Black woman"... the vast majority of Sisters are more sensative and more perceptive then the average person (sort of a requirement for living passed the age of 20). If you hold a deep-seeded resentment toward Black women in general, you won't be able to hide it from them. They can tell by the way you stand, by the way you look at them, by the tone of your voice when you speak... and they'll respond to you accordingly. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You know intellectually that all Black women aren't bitchy, yet you treat them all like bitches... so then they get bitchy about it. My 2 cents...  Ubuntu - I am what I am, because of who we all are. "Peace is not merely the absence of tension, it is the presence of justice." - MLK www.PersonalSafetyInstitute.org |
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A1 |
Brother Axm, welcome to the site. Thank you for being so honest and forthcoming about what disturbs you about Black women. Your thoughts were very well presented, respectful, and well communicated. In response to your experience, I'll say that unless you've been a hermit all your life, I'm sure that you have been in romantic or even long-term relationships with Black women. Did those women have bad attitudes? And if so, did you inquire about the sources of their anger in order to determine why they had bad attitudes? Does your mom (who I'm assuming is a Black woman) have a "bad attitude" as well? If so, then talk to her about it. Perhaps after having a heart-to-heart conversation with some of these women, you'll gain more clarity about their situations. As a Black woman, I can give you a litany of reasons why Black women might have "bad attitudes", and in many cases, they have every right to have bad attitudes. Many of them grow up in environements that are unsafe and unprotected by the men in their community. Often times, it is the men who are supposed to protect them and their families that are the predators. As a result, these women develop a festering distrust of men, and in some cases, this distrust is what ultimately protects them from being abused, raped, prostituted, or used again. Some might ask the question why do these women "allow" themselves to be treated this way? Why don't they just "choose" better lovers, better fathers, better uncles, better brothers? But this type of criticism usually comes from people who never grew up in severely impoverished areas. They don't know what it's like to live with family members who are addicted to alcohol and/or drugs. Or to be trapped in a transgenerational cycle of poverty and abuse. So before you finally decide that all Black women have bad attitudes (for no reason), or that they are all venting their anger (towards you), I suggests that you look beyond yourself brother, and see the bigger picture.
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C3 |
No disrespect, but, I'd appreciate you do not call me brother. Why change your thoughts? We all have prejudices. Your's is against Black women and by extension Blacks, assimilate into the other side and bad mouth Blacks with the rest of them. |
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A1 |
With all due respect, the brother was honest about his feelings. And he did so in a respectful manner. I can respect that. Brothers have pain and experience abuse and disappointment as well. They grow up in the same environments. We cannot acknowledge and embrace the pain of sisters ... and then ignore (even marginalize and deny) that of brothers at the same time. Doing so will help absolutely nothing very fast. If it makes sense to say that some black women feel threatened by and distrust for men (as Rowe was suggesting the brotha try to understand)... then surely the feeling has got to be real on the other side. This black men don't have a right to feel ish has got to stop. JMHO.
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A1 |
Although it may be true ... it makes no sense whatsoever to say this:
And then turn around and say to men: Too bad. You just have to live with it. And you shouldn't have feelings of your own due to your own formidable battles in life ... or due to being mistreated by women with (even understandable) issues. To maintain that is to maintain that all men are equally responsible for creating that pain. I do believe that it is necessary to look beyond our own situation at the bigger picture. For this reason, I'll be the first to extend myself and say it is of utmost importance to try to understand where sisters are coming from. However, the bigger picture includes men as well. |
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A1 |
My advice? If the bitterness you are feeling comes primarily from romantic relationships, I'd say take a break from dating. Allow yourself to come to terms with your feelings. Try to understand where the woman was emotionally. Try to understand what you brought to the situation. Then try to understand what you definitely did not deserve ... and what you will want in the future (both from yourself and a partner) in the way of improvement. Those feelings will heal eventually. You'll be healthier and in a good place to make better decisions about what type of person you will allow close to you in the future. I believe that we men don't give ourselves enough time to heal. This type of bitterness happens when you jump from one venomous relationship into a another without giving yourself time to reflect. JMHO. |
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D5 |
That's an excellent point Viking, self-ananlysis would do me some good; I've done this (and still am). And,like I said, when I ask myself the question: What did I do to her? - I constantly replay the scenario of what had happend. The answers I come up with, leaves me confused; as far as my body-language is concerned, I refuse to accept that my being affable, accomodating and accessible elicits antagonism from black women - even though this answer seems to present itself many times.
As far as conversation, ONLY when she takes liberties with me, I'll TRY to take THE SAME liberties with her; but as some of you men in this forum know, there's a double standard to conversation between the sexes: she can say whatever she wants, but you have to Man-up & deal with it, tersely. I've (begrudgingly) learned to accept that. Despite the weight my resentment (and pop culture), I still treat black women respectfully. Despite my resentment, I'm still trying to keep an open mind, inviting input from anyone who successfully dealt with this problematic perception of black women. Thank you. |
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A1 |
My final piece of advice: There are a lot of beautiful sisters out there. Try to surround yourself with positive black women - without romantic (or other) strings attached. I've found that this has helped me a lot. The wisest, most reliable, and most helpful people in my life now are black women. |
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Tasmanian Angel |
Hi there, axm! And
 to the board! Well, now ... that's some kind of dilemma you've got yourself into, now isn't it?? Well, lemme throw my 2 cents in and see if I can help!! First of all ... I realize/understand what you're saying ... and unlike the others, I don't think it's you or your fault or that you should blame yourself for how you feel! Quite personally, I too, have experienced that same kind of *attitude* from sisters, especially when it comes to customer service .. and, any way you want to slice it, it comes out rude and ill-mannered!  Of course, Black women aren't the only ones who show this discourtesy .. but, since that's who we're talking about, let's go on and call a spade a spade, shall we? I don't appreciate having to pull good customer service out of somebody who looks like me, and get treated better by others of different ethnicities than I do from my own. So, I do understand why you feel the way you do. Now, that being said ... I do agree with Rowe that many sistas have some deep rooted, inner demons inside of them that may cause them to have adverse attitudes which they tend to bring out into the outside world with them. Not that that's an excuse ... but it could definitely be used as an explanation. And maybe a little understanding of that would be able to help you cope with the problem.  I also think that you are internalizing the behavior of others, which probably makes things a lot harder on you. Whatever these women's (or anybody else's) problem is, #1 - it's not yours, and #2 - you shouldn't make yourself responsible for it! My advice to you (since you seem like a reasonable, decent enough guy) is to be glad that you don't have all that built-up hate and anger inside you and wish for better for that person that does, and then get on with what's good and happy in your own life! You are NOT going to fix an angry, unhappy sista ... believe me, as a woman myself, I have tried with numerous sista-friends and relatives!  And it just ain't gonna work that way! They have to first get tired of being angry and unhappy and then look for ways to let it go. The problem is, many don't even recognize that they are the way they are. But, there's nothing you can do about it in the meantime ... and probably little you did to cause it!So, don't take it on yourself that there's something wrong with you (i.e., you're an asshole or a traitor or a jackass), unless, as Black Viking says, you, yourself are throwing attitude out there, as well! "What did you do to her?" Nothing! She is the way she is for reasons other than you! Accept that, and I think you'll be able to move away from embarrasment or hurt or resentment. If she's having a day (or life) don't let it ruin yours!I also don't think you need to part ways with Black women ... a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch! Learn to give extra appreciation for and respect to those that have a good attitude and share it with you and amongst other people. Hope for better for those that don't. Our people are still our people .. and we just have to learn to take the bitter with the sweet! BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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