When you're first going out with a woman, how long do you usually wait before you start expecting sex? Two seconds, 2 weeks, 2 months...how long is too long? And would you be willing to date a woman who does not have premarital sex at all?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rowe,

I've always been the "Nice Guy", also, if the relationship had the look of something long-term and the woman were communicative, I've been known to wait as long as nine months--before I broached the subject of sex...just talking about it mind you, not actually doing it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: thayfen,

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"Sure, the Son will forgive you; yet it is the Father who will judge..."

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Originally posted by Rowe:
When you're first going out with a woman, how long do you usually wait before you start expecting sex? Two seconds, 2 weeks, 2 months...how long is too long? And would you be willing to date a woman who does not have premarital sex at all?

loaded question...punt!!

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Originally posted by Rowe:
When you're first going out with a woman, how long do you usually wait before you start expecting sex? Two seconds, 2 weeks, 2 months...how long is too long? And would you be willing to date a woman who does not have premarital sex at all?

I don't expect sex. She's going to do what shes going to do. I expect a conversation and decent interaction worthy of my time and money.

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Originally posted by Rowe:
When you're first going out with a woman, how long do you usually wait before you start expecting sex? Two seconds, 2 weeks, 2 months...how long is too long?

As with most things in relationships, women run the show with this one. Men wait exactly as long as women make them wait. However, how long a woman makes me wait tells me how serious she is about the relationship. If she's ready to go the first night we meet, or on the first date, then it's just a fling for her. I'll probably never see or hear from her again, whether I have sex with her or not. If she makes me wait six months, then she's pretty dedicated to a long term deal.

However, if I'm looking for a relationship with her, I never go there within two months. If she's hot for it before we hit two months, I actually gain points by holding her off. Unless she's a psycho, in which case she goes away mad because I won't sleep with her and I lose nothing.

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And would you be willing to date a woman who does not have premarital sex at all?

Absolutely! I've never done it, but I wouldn't hesitate. If she's got everything I want in a potential partner, putting sex on the back burner is a small sacrifice. If she doesn't, then I'm happy to move on without ever having sex with her.

With my wife of 25 years it was 6 months before anything happened. My college room mate throught it was hiliarious as I was known for having my way with the ladies when I wanted. As he fondly put it "this is good for you, you will probably end up marrying that girl".

With my wife it was close to 8 months. In the beginning, I was not really interested in a sexual relationship with her even though we became close [platonic friendship] very quickly.

Then because she had a daughter, we struggled with taking our relationship to that level; I was fixute at her house and she at mine. Her daughter and I became close, what would happen if the relationship did not work out. How would it effect her [now our] daughter?

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Originally posted by Black Viking:
Men wait exactly as long as women make them wait.

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If she's hot for it before we hit two months, I actually gain points by holding her off.

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However, how long a woman makes me wait tells me how serious she is about the relationship. If she's ready to go the first night we meet, or on the first date, then it's just a fling for her.

Or maybe she's just really attracted to you and wants to have sex.

Unless you have a conversation with someone beforehand about what sex means to them, I think it's dangerous to assume that they follow your own brand of sexual signs.

People have sex for different reasons and often our reasons change depending on the potential partner.

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Originally posted by Frenchy:

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Originally posted by Black Viking:
Men wait exactly as long as women make them wait.

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If she's hot for it before we hit two months, I actually gain points by holding her off.

What part of this confuses you?

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However, how long a woman makes me wait tells me how serious she is about the relationship. If she's ready to go the first night we meet, or on the first date, then it's just a fling for her.

Or maybe she's just really attracted to you and wants to have sex.

And how is that different? One-night-stand equals fling in my book.

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Unless you have a conversation with someone beforehand about what sex means to them, I think it's dangerous to assume that they follow your own brand of sexual signs.

Dangerous in what way? I don't see how I lose anything by pre-qualifying women. I thought you, of all people, would agree with that.

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People have sex for different reasons and often our reasons change depending on the potential partner.

I agree. But potential is the key word. They have to rise to my standards as well.

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Originally posted by Black Viking:
What part of this confuses you?

On the one hand you say women call the shots and men wait as long women make them wait. And then you go on to give an example of a women who is ready and you rebuff her. So which is it? Do women always make the decision or do men have their own standards?

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Or maybe she's just really attracted to you and wants to have sex.

And how is that different? One-night-stand equals fling in my book.

Why does what I said equal "one night stand" in your mind? Wanting to have sex with you on the first night or the 30th night even, don't necessarily mean she never wants to have sex with you after that.

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Dangerous in what way?

Dangerous in that you are likely to misinterpret what the relationship is. There are people who won't have sex with you until 9 months into a relationship and emotionally still consider you a fling. And there are people that will have sex with you on the first night and genuinely have feelings for you. There's no universal standard for when real emotions kick in.

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I don't see how I lose anything by pre-qualifying women. I thought you, of all people, would agree with that.

I'm a fan of prequalification based on what exactly is in front of you and NOT what you assume to be true.

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People have sex for different reasons and often our reasons change depending on the potential partner.

I agree. But potential is the key word. They have to rise to my standards as well.

I mean "potential" as in "possible." Our reasons may change depending on who it is we are thinking of having sex with and what our emotions/thoughts are in that particular space and time.

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Originally posted by Frenchy:
So which is it? Do women always make the decision or do men have their own standards?

Both! Women always make the decision and men have their own stadards.

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Or maybe she's just really attracted to you and wants to have sex.

And how is that different? One-night-stand equals fling in my book.

Why does what I said equal "one night stand" in your mind? Wanting to have sex with you on the first night or the 30th night even, don't necessarily mean she never wants to have sex with you after that.

But, we are only talking about sex. She may want to have sex with me next year. That does not mean that she wants any kind of relationship.

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Dangerous in what way?

Dangerous in that you are likely to misinterpret what the relationship is. There are people who won't have sex with you until 9 months into a relationship and emotionally still consider you a fling. And there are people that will have sex with you on the first night and genuinely have feelings for you. There's no universal standard for when real emotions kick in.

I'm sorry Frenchy. NO WOMAN is going to date me for 9 months as a fling without me knowing. I've known some women to pull some craziness, but that's not going to get by me.

And, how can anyone have genuine (and I do mean genuine) feelings for someone they just met? They know nothing about me.

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I don't see how I lose anything by pre-qualifying women. I thought you, of all people, would agree with that.

I'm a fan of prequalification based on what exactly is in front of you and NOT what you assume to be true.

Frenchy, we're only talking about what's in front of you. I'm not making any assumtions. I may not know what she knows, but I do know what she doesn't know. I refuse to believe that she is interested in a long term relationship with me, when she doesn't know me.

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People have sex for different reasons and often our reasons change depending on the potential partner.

I agree. But potential is the key word. They have to rise to my standards as well.

I mean "potential" as in "possible." Our reasons may change depending on who it is we are thinking of having sex with and what our emotions/thoughts are in that particular space and time.

Of course. Like I said, women choose. But, they still have to rise to my standards.

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Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
I don't expect sex. She's going to do what shes going to do. I expect a conversation and decent interaction worthy of my time and money.

So you don't think that after emptying your wallet, weekend after weekend, that you don't eventually deserve more than just "decent conversation." Some of you are not being completely honest.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rowe,

From my experiences, most men begin expecting sex after the third or fourth date, particularly if they are paying for everything. I remember dating this guy, who I knew I would never have sex with in a million years, get very upset with me for not accepting his invitation to go up to his apartment for dinner. Just before telling him that I would not "feel comfortable" being alone with him in his apartment, he went off, raising his voice exclaiming, "YOU'RE SAFE!" "YOU'RE SAFE WITH ME, WHAT ARE YOU SO DAMN AFRAID OF?!?!"

I think for some men, just accepting their invitation to go on date is an agreement to eventually have sex with them.

Honestly, it depends. There have been times when immediately was in order. Some were flings, some were just mutual curiosity leading to a longer relationship. I've waited for months in some cases & made women wait at times. I've dated someone "saving themselves" before as well. I did not wish to marry her, so I moved on (Marriage for the sake of sex that may or may not be good is foolish to say the least!).

Question: If you know someone is romantically/sexually interested in you but your feelings are not the same, why continue to go out with them? Why not honestly state your feelings as soon as you know them so the other person can make the best decision for their psyche & wallet?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ddouble,

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R.I.F. (Reading IS Fundamental)...



"There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general:
(1) Recklessness, which leads to destruction;
(2) cowardice, which leads to capture;
(3) a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults;
(4) a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame;
(5) over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble."
-Sun Tzu

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Originally posted by Rowe:

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Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
I don't expect sex. She's going to do what shes going to do. I expect a conversation and decent interaction worthy of my time and money.

So you don't think that after emptying your wallet, weekend after weeken,d on dates with a woman, that you don't eventually deserve something more than just "decent conversation." Some of you are not being completely honest.

Sure, I expect progression in the relationship. However, that progress does (and should) happen on her timetable. Men (myself included) have a tendency to move too quickly in relationships. Like they are a snowball rolling downhill, gaining size, speed, and momentum every second. I've always had more success trying to move too slowly. It makes me more of a challenge for her, and more interesting, while aleviating any pressure on her.

Dating is more than "decent conversation". It's a game. There is a subtle push/pull going on at all times. That's what makes it fun. And it should be fun. Although there should be sexual attraction, adding sex to the mix makes it much more complicated. Especially if it's added too early. I prefer light-hearted relationships, until I have good reason to take it seriously.

PS. I never let a woman empty my wallet. When I discover that I'm dating a user or a gold-digger, I step real fast.

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Originally posted by Rowe:
From my experiences, most men begin expecting sex after the third or fourth date, particularly if they are paying for everything.

This is a real shame. Guys need to get this in perspective. Prostitutes are cheaper than dating, and at least they are guaranteed to get sex. Dating is not supposed to be about sex per se. No woman should feel obligated to sleep with someone just because they paid for a few dinners.

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I remember dating this guy, who I knew I would never have sex with in a million years, get very upset with me for not accepting his invitation to go up to his apartment for dinner. Just before telling him that I would not "feel comfortable" being alone with him in his apartment, he went off, raising his voice exclaiming, "YOU'RE SAFE!" "YOU'RE SAFE WITH ME, WHAT ARE YOU SO DAMN AFRAID OF?!?!"

Rowe, this guy is a psycho. IMO, not going to his apartment was a very smart decision. If a man has to tell (or yell at) you that you're safe with him, then you're not safe with him. I have to admit, some guys amaze me. Women always know when they are safe and/or comfortable, and then they vote with their feet. I don't have to tell them anything in regards to this.

I do have a question for you Rowe. If you knew you had no attraction to this guy at all, why go out with him?

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I think for some men, just accepting their invitation to go on date is an agreement to eventually have sex with them.

I think you're right, but I also think that some men are idiots.

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Originally posted by Rowe:

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Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
I don't expect sex. She's going to do what shes going to do. I expect a conversation and decent interaction worthy of my time and money.

So you don't think that after emptying your wallet, weekend after weeken,d on dates with a woman, that you don't eventually deserve something more than just "decent conversation." Some of you are not being completely honest.

LOL! I dont empty my wallet for anyone but my kid. But seriously, dating to me is more about mental interaction. Finding out where her head is at, and my head as well. Honestly, with my job, if I want sex all I have to do is raise my hand and I'm in Mexico, Europe and/or Nigeria and just being american I can get some. In my younger and dumber days this is exactly what I did. Now, I want more. Much more. Not to mention as nice as sex is, it is a bit overrated when looking at the big picture. Hell we put so much emphasis on sex that we forget about actually being happy or at least content. IMHO

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Originally posted by xxGAMBITxx:
Honestly, with my job, if I want sex all I have to do is raise my hand and I'm in Mexico, Europe and/or Nigeria and just being american I can get some. In my younger and dumber days this is exactly what I did. Now, I want more. Much more.

This maybe but i have to ask you this.

Do you think that age/maturity have anything to do with a mans expectations, concerning sex?

I ask because im finding men my age 23-30, are only interested in sex.....but men older than 30, seem to focus on other things.

It's a combination of changing priorities and reduced libido. Men are typically at their hormonal peak around their mid 20's. This effects aggression & libido. In my experience, women's libidos rise from 30-45.

With that said, I wouldn't say sex is the only priority. It is probably important because it is a skill that requires nurturing & development. How do you know what to do and how to do it unless you do it! We know a brother with suspect skills in the bedroom may not get a second chance, so he wants to keep his skills sharp! Older men are usually more confident in their abilities so they don't sweat it as much. But they got that way by going through the stage I described earlier.

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Originally posted by ddouble:
It's a combination of changing priorities and reduced libido. Men are typically at their hormonal peak around their mid 20's. This effects aggression & libido. In my experience, women's libidos rise from 30-45.

With that said, I wouldn't say sex is the only priority. It is probably important because it is a skill that requires nurturing & development. How do you know what to do and how to do it unless you do it! We know a brother with suspect skills in the bedroom may not get a second chance, so he wants to keep his skills sharp! Older men are usually more confident in their abilities so they don't sweat it as much. But they got that way by going through the stage I described earlier.

Ddouble, I have to give you props. You always hit these things right on the nose.