Stop Footing The Bill On Dates
By Matthew Fitzgerald

http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/101_dating_advice.html

The feminist movement has done its job: the gender wage gap has gone the way of June Cleaver's apron and bosses chasing their secretaries around the desk.

Women in the 2000's are now earning as much as -- or more than -- their male counterparts.

Great. This is exactly the way it should be in our society.
what equal?
But equal rights come with a price because true equality means equality across the board, not just equality until the check comes. The real gender gap is that women with good jobs and equal incomes are still insisting that men finance their social lives.

I'd say that's a double standard a very self-serving double standard.

Why should men foot the bill for dinner, entertainment and weekend getaways, while women happily bank their paychecks? In an age of equality, shouldn't the focus of dating be on partnership and sharing, instead of women still expecting to be taken care of financially?

Let's look at some of the excuses women use to justify forcing their "equals" to pick up the check:

1- Men earn more than women for the same job.
False. Such skewed statistics as "women earn about 75 cents for every dollar a man earns" represent outdated, selected data still promoted by radical feminists who insist on portraying women as angelic victims of a "man's world."

According to the U.S. Department of Education, the U.S. Bureau of the Census, and the Bureau of Labor Statistics (among others), the wage gap simply does not exist for women with bachelor's degrees, even in such "male-dominated" fields as architecture and engineering.

And many similarly-educated women aged 35 to 44 actually earn more than their male counterparts.

Moreover, studies by these same organizations show that men consistently work longer hours than women at the same job, so, in essence, women are earning a higher hourly wage.

Where a wage gap does exist can easily be accounted for by: job experience (according to The Journal of Labor Economics , full-time employed women have 20% less job experience than men); larger numbers of men in their 50s and 60s who are earning bigger salaries based on time and experience; female job choices (women often seek out jobs with less income potential such as teaching or retail, or are less dangerous than certain higher-paid male-dominated occupations, such as firefighting and construction); longer male hours at work (men work 90% of overtime hours); the large percentage of female part-time workers which distort the statistics; and the time women take off from work for child-rearing (an option not normally afforded to men).

Even if it were true that women earn 25% less than men, women still should be picking up 75% of their half of the dating expenses. Equal rights means equal rights.

2- If a man's a gentleman, he'll pay for me.
Acting as a woman's version of a "gentleman" is an excellent example of how men are brainwashed by women to fulfill their self-serving interests.

Mothers train their sons to buy into this scam at an early age, teaching them to treat women like goddesses and to pay for female company without question.

No man should allow himself to become a doormat for female whims, and no man should have to pay for a woman earning as much as he is.

3- It costs more to be a woman.
Women package themselves for sale to the highest bidder they can attract -- you don't see umpteen magazines touting beauty tips or gigantic cosmetic counters for men. No one -- and I mean no one, needs a hundred pairs of shoes.

And as for what it costs to be a man -- try getting a date without an expensive house, an upscale car and nice clothing.

4- It's just nice.
Sure it's nice -- I'd like someone to give me door-to-door chauffeur service, bring me presents, and pay for my dinner and entertainment, all for the possibility of sex, but with no obligation whatsoever. Let's be honest; if we did this, we'd be in jail for fraud.

5- It's just expected.
Yes, it is expected by women who have set up the rules of dating and sex by forcing men to bend to their rules. And this means, if you don't pay, you don't get laid.

6- If you don't pay for me, you're cheap.
I love this one -- pure sexual blackmail. It just proves that what women really want is cash.

7- Whoever asks for the date should pay.
This is a great example of the female double standard. How many women have actually asked you out? And yet you can hear this excuse from women on a daily basis!

Let's look at it this way -- when two women go out to dinner, does the one who asks pay? No, they usually split the bill. The same thing happens when a woman goes out with a man who's just a "friend" -- each pays an equal share.

But the second that sex enters the equation, the woman expects to be paid for. This is nothing less than whitewashed prostitution.

8- I can get away with it.
This is when the truth finally comes out. I've heard many women say, "I've got what you want and you're going to have to pay for it." Such arrogance just reduces dating to a whore/john relationship.

9- My girlfriend's boyfriend pays for her, so why shouldn't you?
This is another version of the "you're cheap" routine. What's she's really saying is, "my girlfriend gets away with sexual blackmail, and I want to get away with it, too."

10- I offer to pay, but guys say no.
In these days of equal rights some women will make a thinly-veiled, half-hearted attempt -- once -- to uphold their end of the "equality" bargain by offering to pay their half of the check.

But it's all a sham -- she knows that the guy knows that if he takes her up on her offer, any hope of sex is over.
bottom line
As men, the best thing we can do is to put our collective feet down and stop paying for women. After all, their behavior amounts to little more than extortion and sexual blackmail.

The reason women can still get away with this behavior is because we let them. It's time to stand up for ourselves and demand equal rights as men.

There should be absolutely no question about who should pay the bill: we both should.

Matthew Fitzgerald is the author of Sex-Ploytation. He has appeared on radio shows from coast-to-coast in the United States and in Canada, and has been featured on the Montel show and The Other Half.

I said a lot of this stuff in a thread last year & got chewed out for it, by women and men.

Am I allowed to asked about this here? I don't want to commit any more trespassing faux pas.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ATPWordPro,

------------------------------
DOMS is my friend.

Sure. Maybe it'll go better than the last time...

Do you like to pay?

Hey, Brother DeeDub! I agree wholeheartedly that most of the dating "rules" are outdated and need to change. I don't think that any one person should foot the bill and that things should be more equitable. If a person can not afford to go out they should stay home.

Everything is expensive from the gas in the car to the food on the table. I think that is why more casual dates are becoming the norm among my inner cirle.

Great post, as usual!

Okay, I've totally lost my thought.

Um, I guess I just wanted to say that, for me, who paid really never made any difference. I had, and still have, no problem asking a man out for food or drink with full expectation of picking up the ENTIRE bill. To me it really isn't that serious. Whether I'm down down for sexual activity is never predicated on who pays for what. Er, uh, a man's language, how much perfume he's wearing and what's under his fingernails contributes much more to the decision-making process.

Second thought/question:
One time a new friend asked if I wanted to see a particular movie. I said yes and we decided on what show time and what theater. For whatever reason, we decided to go to a theater in my neighborhood. So, since I had time during the day, I went to the box office and purchased the tickets. My thought was that we could avoid the huge lines that typically form on a Friday evening. He asked, so I assume he thought he was going to pay. Did I screw up by buying the tickets?

quote:

Did I screw up by buying the tickets?

You'll get as many answers as there are men. All I can tell you is that it would not have bothered me.

Look forward to you "finding your thought"...

quote:

Originally posted by ATPWordPro:
One time a new friend asked if I wanted to see a particular movie. I said yes and we decided on what show time and what theater. For whatever reason, we decided to go to a theater in my neighborhood. So, since I had time during the day, I went to the box office and purchased the tickets. My thought was that we could avoid the huge lines that typically form on a Friday evening. He asked, so I assume he thought he was going to pay. Did I screw up by buying the tickets?

I think what you did was very thoughtful Sister ATP. But I also think that if a man is worried about spending up his little money on dates, then maybe he shouldn't be dating in the first place. I cannot stand cheap men. A date should be about having a nice evening with your girl, and not worrying about who is going to pay for this or not pay for that. I'm very traditional. I don't have respect for a man who doesn't at least pay for the first date, because I mean, what's next? men are going to stop holding doors for women, stop opening car doors, removing their hats, and giving up their seats to women, children, and the elderly! This world is going crazy. To me, it just sounds like the person who wrote this article is being spiteful and vengeful towards women. I think its very immature for a man to say to himself, "Since women are coming up, I'm not going to do anything for them anymore. They can do for themselves."

Think about it this way: Men have been earning the bucks in the household for years, yet women remained home to cook and clean after them and raise their children while they were at work. Women didn't ration out who was going to what part of the domestic work and who wasn't. Now that the tables have turned, some men want to petty and spiteful.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rowe,

I asked these questions in the last thread like this before it went awry:

If the man is always paying, what is the woman doing with her money? Why do (some) women think it's reasonable that they pocket all of their earnings, while the man has to fund the dates? Is the date about learning whether the two of you are compatible or measuring his earning potential? Finally, how would you feel women, if a guy kicked you to the curb for not paying or considered you too cheap?

No matter how it's rationalized, it is a double standard to be liberated & independent until the check comes.

quote:

Originally posted by ddouble:
Is the date about learning whether the two of you are compatible or measuring his earning potential? Finally, how would you feel women, if a guy kicked you to the curb for not paying or considered you too cheap?

The same way that I feel when a man kicks me to the curb for not putting out - That's how I would feel. Anyway, the reason why men typically pay for dates is because they are ones who initiate dates. Men are pursuers. Women wait to be pursued. And the person who asks someone out on a date is the person who usually pays. If I asked you out on a date Ddouble, why would I expect you to pay for the date when I'm the one who asked you out? Since I asked you out on a date, I will pay for the date because you are my special guest. I am treating you to a nice time. That's how it works. If more women would step up to plate and ask men out on a date, then they would pay for more dates. That's how it goes.

I can't believe that we are having this discussion. What is the world coming to. Men are not performing their roles. When you're preparing to go on a date, you should be thinking about having an exciting time, not worrying about who is going to pay. There's no sense in going then if you're going to do that. There is no fun.

quote:

Men are not performing their roles.

Please elaborate. What about the analog to your statement - do you think women are performing their roles? Do you think most women want to be "traditional" today?

quote:

When you're preparing to go on a date, you should be thinking about having an exciting time, not worrying about who is going to pay. There's no sense in going then if you're going to do that. There is no fun.

A date can be fun & good, regardless of how much it costs or who pays. It's also easy to say don't worry about the money if you never put yourself in a position to pay.

quote:

The same way that I feel when a man kicks me to the curb for not putting out - That's how I would feel.

Understood. In fact, I knew you would say that... All's fair in love & dating, huh?

Many women don't ask Rowe, on purpose, so that's one of those ifs that should become doing.

Fortunately, I've known more than my fair share of women who didn't have hang-ups about paying or asking for dates.

I think I'll just agree to disagree on this topic with you, because I think in general, the advice is good, particularly 2-7 & 9.

quote:

Originally posted by ATPWordPro:


Second thought/question:
One time a new friend asked if I wanted to see a particular movie. I said yes and we decided on what show time and what theater. For whatever reason, we decided to go to a theater in my neighborhood. So, since I had time during the day, I went to the box office and purchased the tickets. My thought was that we could avoid the huge lines that typically form on a Friday evening. He asked, so I assume he thought he was going to pay. Did I screw up by buying the tickets?

No, because you were in the neighorhood and buying the tickets helped you save some time later. I would, if i were you, have expected him to either buy the popcorn or buy the tix next time.

My philosophy, each should contribute to the date(s) according to their ability to do so. There is no hard and fast rule for me on how this should be done: whether it is splitting checks, or one party paying for the meal and the other party paying for tickets, or someone paying it entire date this week, and then the next week the other party picking up the tab.

Seems fair and logical.

Ok so we have men who want to be "respected" and treated as "head of the household" or "leader"

but

they want women to pay?


that don't go togeva, do it?

Just speaking for myself, I don't buy into the "head of household schtick". I expect respect, however, because I give respect. My relationship with my wife is about mutuality and sharing. No one person calls the shots. That is what was also modeled for me by my parents. There was no immutable division of labor, and decisions were made cooperatively, and it seems to still be working after 45 years.

quote:

Originally posted by kresge:
My philosophy, each should contribute to the date(s) according to their ability to do so. There is no hard and fast rule for me on how this should be done: whether it is splitting checks, or one party paying for the meal and the other party paying for tickets, or someone paying it entire date this week, and then the next week the other party picking up the tab.

Seems fair and logical.

This sounds fair and logical, but how would a brother start a conversation like this without appearing cheap or broke? That's the quandry. As I said earlier, for the sake of chilvary, I think men should at least pay for the first date regardless of who earns the most money. And how would you find out if a woman earns more than you anyway? What are you going to do? Ask to see her salary stub before taking her out? That's why I said this is ridiculous. Just go out and have a good time. Stop worrying about who has the most money. I think after the third date, if a couple is really getting serious, most women will start paying for some of the dating expenses anyway. But most men like to feel as if they are taking care of their woman. Even if a woman has her own money, he likes to feel the joy of knowing that he is the one who is responsible for pleasing her and making her happy. And when a man finds a woman who he truly loves and cares for, he instinctively wants to please her by doing everything that he can for her. That's only a man's nature. Men like to please. Women like to serve.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rowe,

quote:

Originally posted by kresge:
Just speaking for myself, I don't buy into the "head of household schtick". I expect respect, however, because I give respect.

I am however, very surprised to hear this from a minister. I find this attitude very Kool. It's that whole "men pursue, women are pursued" thing that may be at the root of this. Generally, if it's my idea then I come up with the funds...but If women are to be pursued, what will men do? Lacking colorful plummage or an expandable bladder beneath their chins, what will the male of the species do to pursue their potential mates?

quote:

Originally posted by Rowe:

quote:

Originally posted by kresge:
My philosophy, each should contribute to the date(s) according to their ability to do so. There is no hard and fast rule for me on how this should be done: whether it is splitting checks, or one party paying for the meal and the other party paying for tickets, or someone paying it entire date this week, and then the next week the other party picking up the tab.

Seems fair and logical.

This sounds fair and logical, but how would a brother start a conversation like this without appearing cheap or broke? That's the quandry. As I said earlier, for the sake of chilvary, I think men should at least pay for the first date, regardless of who earns the most money. And how would you find out if a woman earns more than you anyway? What are you going to do? Ask to see her salary stub before taking her out? That's why I said this is ridiculous. Just go out and have a good time. Stop worrying about who has the most money. I think after the third date, if a couple is really getting serious, most women will start paying for some of the dating expenses anyway. But most men like to feel as if they are taking care of their woman. Even if a woman has her own money, he likes to feel the joy of knowing that he is the one who is responsible for pleasing her and making her happy. And when a man finds a woman who he truly loves and cares for, he instinctively wants to please her by doing everything that he can for her. That's only a man's nature. Men like to please. Women like to serve.

i agree with you. As a habit, I usually pay for the first three dates, if she worth three dates, and then I expect her to at least offer to pay some part of it. It would be a shame if our dating life is based off of only my pay schedule or savings. Usually sometime along the way of us getting to three dates, she offers to pay, which I have more often than not rejected, but i take as a good faith sign of her trying to get to know me. Back to what was said earlier, I think that the date is for the purpose of getting to know someone, whether we are at a coffee shop or an expensive restaurant with a violinist. Two people can bond/connect just about anywhere

It's really quite confusing nowadays;

men generally resent feminism
yet
want a woman to pay for dates.

men don't like aggressive women
yet
want a woman to come on to them first

men want to be the head
yet
are comfortable with women paying for things

men view women who don't spend money on dates in a certain light
yet
men want to be the ones who don't pay for dates.

Has the whole "men pursue women" been changed without a memo?

quote:

Originally posted by Rowe:
.... But most men like to feel as if they are taking care of their woman. Even if a woman has her own money, he likes to feel the joy of knowing that he is the one who is responsible for pleasing her and making her happy. And when a man finds a woman who he truly loves and cares for, he instinctively wants to please her by doing everything that he can for her. That's only a man's nature. Men like to please. Women like to serve.

This may be true, but the woman is not "his" and love is not detetmined before or during the first date. Committed relationship, fiancee, or wife and your assessment is spot on IMO.