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A1 |
I've had something on mind for awhile.
Inspite of any difficulties I might have ever had relating to black women, if I take an honest look at my life, on the whole black women have been more supportive of me than other black men. But yet, why I am tempted to save my critiques for black women? Why do they deserve my bitterness more than brothers who, for what ever reasons (ego, protecting turf, whatever), have screwed me over - or just did nothing for me at all - far more quickly than sisters? If I look at the classes I teach, I can honestly say that if I have a strong black student he/she will more than likely be female. And this has been true going on years. Colleagues have told me similar things. So what's up with the resentment? Why can't we brothers take an honest look at each other? Why can't we be on each another's case to do more and better? Is it because we don't really care? What meaning does "brotherhood" have beyond complaining about, macking on, or mutual admiration of the body parts of .... sisters? Why can't we be more supportive of each other beyond the above activities? |
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A1 |
In the main, this coheres with my experience as well. That is why I don't understand nor participate in most of the threads around here that deal with antagonism between black men and black women. For as long as I can remember, I have always had more close and trusted female friends than male. Truth is undoubtedly the sort of error that cannot be refuted because it was hardened into an unalterable form in the long baking process of history... Michel Foucault Hope begets many children illegitimately and prematurely. Allie M. Frazier Beware the terrible simplifiers... Jacob Burckhardt  |
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The Watcher |
 Guess I'm an anomaly here. I've been surrounded by male and female family, instructors, and friends that have been extremely supportive throughout my life. My ratio isn't drastically skewed. Additionally, I critique and receive critique from male friends offline. To be perfectly honest, I rarely encounter the type of people & situations offline that occur so frequently online. Generally speaking, men aren't encouraged to emote, commiserate and self-critique. Those things are typically viewed as weak, whiny or effeminate. I also think the Darryl James article peeper posted in the resentment thread articulates why men are hesitant to publically critique each other. Create a supportive environment in the Den for the things you talk about and over time, they will happen. Otherwise, you'll continue to get "barbershop" talk.  ------------------------------ R.I.F. (Reading IS Fundamental)... "There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general: (1) Recklessness, which leads to destruction; (2) cowardice, which leads to capture; (3) a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults; (4) a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame; (5) over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble." -Sun Tzu |
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A2 |
1.We do not reesent black women, we, like pretty much everyone else, just likes to bitch and moan.... I mean get it off our chests so to speak. 2 & 3. Because we do not like looking at men, honestly or otherwise (that's a joke, sorta) The truth is we, better than most, know how much of a struggle it is for us, and there are not a lot of people who will accept us as we are, and it is a wonderful thing to not be judged or corrected, just accepted. While that is not always the most strenthening, it is somewhat comforting. But the truth is we all want each other to be and do well, most of us want to be and do well, and sometimes we do judge and correct (mostly behind backs), but basically we hope for the best and understand it is a struggle. 4. Yes we do care. But we kinda want men to find their way, we know it makes them better for it. Especially young men. Here is something, before you ask all this about if we do or do not care for each other, think about the men you know. Which ones would you listen to? Which ones would you not? Be honest in your answer. It is in that answer that you will know why we are to each other the way we are. Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years |
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A1 |
The above is NOT true. There are other culture [s] of men who do not bitch and moan, especially, about their own race of women. And not every group has our same issues to deal with. . .as you say, "to get it off our chest." I find that black ppl [in general] tend to be the least reserved when it comes to expressing ourselves. I think this is a cultural thing. |
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A2 |
And who are these other cultures?
Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years |
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A2 |
Honest Brother, this may be one of those times where the answer is actually in the question. You pointed out to us that Black women have been your biggest supporters thus reinforcing her role as the nourisher and protector. A lot of brothers will not admit it, but there is a level of expectation we have when it comes to black women and this understanding exist on the subconscious level. We know more than anything that the black woman is our mate and our behavior exhibits it. This explains why a brother being rejected by any non-black woman does not faze him at all, but when a sister rejects him, it angers him to the point of wanting to lash out. Now couple this with sisters that run contrary to our subconscious level of thinking about black women as our supporter, nourisher, and protector and so on from early childhood. Unfortunately, this same level of expectation does not exist from us for black men, in fact just the opposite expectation exist. We expect on many levels to not be comforted by other brothers, for no other reason than we do not know how to comfort one another because there has not been an example for us to follow. We know how to go get the gun and bang out for our brothers (except when white folk are the target) but when Our brothers are going through something emotional, we are damn near paralyzed and hope he do not come around us with his emotional problems.
How many brothers can say they have broke down in the arms of one of their male friends? Not many. I say some of us reserve our bitterness for black women because we have a picture, an image, and an expectation for black women while no such thing or the opposite exist for black men. When women run contrary to our image, picture, and expectation, they hear it from us, while brothers continue to meet the non-existent level of expectation we have for one another. ------------------------- There are Negroes who will never fight for freedom. There are Negroes who will seek profit for themselves from the struggle. There are even some Negroes who will cooperate with the oppressors. The hammer blows of discrimination, poverty, and segregation must warp and corrupt some. No one can pretend that because a people may be oppressed, every individual member is virtuous and worthy. Martin Luther King http://blackintrospection.com/ More to come later! Your Brother Faheem |
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A1 |
For the record, this is not meant as a slight against brothers, because again. . .
other cultures do not have our same issues [blk issues] to deal with. . . so who's to say how well they'd fair [in the bitch & moan dept], if they did. . . |
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A1 |
 @ Faheem
Honestly? There are very few men I'd listen to ... and even then I would not necessarily take their advice. And all these men happen to be much older than I am (by at least a good 20 years). In fact, I can't think of a single man I trust unquestioningly. One of the things that got me thinking about this topic was recently when I had a mini-family reunion over the holidays. I visited an elder cousin who I hadn't seen since I was 5 years old. This 75 year old man couldn't get enough of talking about what he remembered about me all those years ago and how proud he was of what I had become. I started reflecting on why his praise meant so much to me. And it slowly dawned on me that no other man in my family had ever said he was proud of me. I've mostly known other men (including my father) as rivals ... or obstacles (same difference)... or indifferent. It's only been in recent years that my own brothers and I have gotten together for mutual support. I made a point before I left to tell my youngest brother that he made me proud.
I tried.
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A2 |
You would listen to a brother that you acknowledged as an authority, the thing is, there are very, very few people black men will accept as an authority. That may come from the context of black males in a white world, but that could be easily over come by a brother who is an authority (on something other than the NBA), but even to get there, you have to overcome the competitor obstacle.
I think the competitor obstacle is a big thing among men, not just black men either. We see other male as competitors and therefore will not expose anything to them because it would be considered a weakness to a competitor. But all that aside, graciously accept what you get from brothers and give them what you want from them. Well that works for people period. Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years |
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A1 |
This strikes me as somehow profound. Finding my way as a black man was a helluva journey. Mostly due to the lack of examples. In my teens and early 20's, I was hungry for a "father" - a guide if you will ... and I lived off of rage for the lack of one ... I eventually decided I didn't need one. I became one for myself. But if I didn't have strong skills and a basic direction, I might have found myself on the streets.
Competition is one thing ... all out war is another ...
I've occasionally done that ... and got nada ... |
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Tasmanian Angel |
I believe this is a prevailing and pervasive difference/problem for a lot of young black males today.  The lack of an "example" does a lot to the male psyche. More than most men (or women) ever know.It wasn't until I watched my brother raise his two sons that I realized that there are things that men teach boys that a mother, no matter how devoted, never can. And that it is done pretty much in the same way that mothers teach daughters "woman" things ... there are just times when the two have to have "a talk" about things the youngster needs to know! And during these talks, there are gender-specific things passed down that are part of the process of maturing. Several of these things came to light over the holiday as my nephew has just learned that he (already with 2 daughters) is about to have a son. And he talked about many things he learned from my brother ... that he learned from my father ... that he learned from his. I think it is very important for a young man to have a positive male presence, especially during the formative years in order to make that transition into manhood a much smoother one than what usually happens when there is not. And, with so many absentee fathers in the lives of children these days, I believe it's one reason why Black males are having such a hard time negotiating life in a positive way. BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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A2 |
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
 Passing the torch in "pride" is much better and more rewarding than passing the torch in "prison." Far too many of us are in prison generationally. Starting this "new trend" is an outstanding way to show "black love"....which is something our culture have been RUNNING away from for years. It's time to start revisiting this tradition.  for passing this on to the youngest male member in your family....he will NEVER forget you said it and WILL make it his goal to continue to make you proud....just cuz you planted the "I am great and can be even greater" seed in his heart. You have now passed the torch [seed] of excellence.... Watch it grow!  |
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A1 |
Two principles are lacking, an unconditional acceptance, and a thorough understanding. You've either rejected or disassociated yourself from both principles... hence the confusion. 1. Acceptance does not equate approval, its merely a fundamental tool we can use to avoid false competitions. "Like the one between you and your father" 2. Understanding is not optional. Case and point, your misunderstanding that we are "not on eachothers case". If you truly immersed yourself into "brother"hood, you wouldn't come to such conclusions. ------------------------------ BTW Guess who's Bizzack ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh ------------------------------ Where does this "resentment" you have concluded, stem from? "Why can't brothers take an honest look at eachother" Translated: Why can't brothers mirror me?... "honest""brother"
Are you in or out?
Is this what you've reduced brotherhood too? Again... are you in or out? THAT TYPE OF HONESTY IS BELOW MY PAYGRADE. |
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A1 |
That might be the case. What should I understand thoroughly? If you could enlighten me I might be further along the road of unconditional acceptance.
With all due respect Heru ... how would you happen to know this?
With all due respect, I don't believe you know enough about the situation between my father and I to conclude that the 'competition' is false ... or that there are no legitimate issues.
What does "being on each other's case" mean to you - honest question.
I'm not sure that I believe this.
That is yet to be determined.
And what am I like - that I should want brothas to mirror me?
In or out of what? And on what terms?
In or out of what? And on what terms? |
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A1 |
Gladly brother. Points 1 and 2 are prerequisites for love. So brother to brother, there must be some form of sacrificial assimilation in order to be formally grounded in an intimate relationship... in order to call someone brother. This purpose of this assimilation is to be able to communicate culturally and socially. I believe you don't understand our communication, this enables you to assume that there is no communication (in regards to being on eachothers case). So how could you be my brother when you have purposely alienated yourself? (While at times complaining about feeling of being ostracized)
I like to presume. 
Well, we would have to start with our cultural priorities and principles. Which, I believe, is where the 'language' barrier begins.  Did you know that the rapper Pimp C, who was recently found dead in a hotel, was on a radio station complaining about there being too much "drug" talk and not enough political and social commentary.
Assimilate THAT TYPE OF HONESTY IS BELOW MY PAYGRADE. |
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A1 |
Assimilate to what? What does that assimilation entail? Exactly what is sacrificed? |
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A1 |
Heru, I think you might have some distorted ideas about me.
You don't think I know how to sit around and talk shit? You don't think I know anything about rap music? To what should I assimilate? My 30 something year old step brother who still lives in a single room with my mom and step father? Or his cousin who crashes (along with his girlfriend) in the fold out bed in the basement? The guys I grew up with - one of whom I heard got shot recently? What? What does assimilation entail? What needs to be sacrificed?
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A1 |
What are our cultural priorities and principles? |
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