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C2 |
I read an article in essence recently about fathers who stay home with their children, while the wife is the bread winner. Reasons sited included that black women are getting college degrees in larger numbers and in some cases are landing professional better paying jobs than their partners. Rather than spend on child care, it is sometimes cheaper to have dad stay at home.
What do you think? is it a set back or do you consider it progress for our community. would you be a stay at home father? {SAY WHAT YOU WANT. I'VE GOT A POINT THOUGH, EVEN IF YOU WON'T ADMIT IT.} |
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A2 |
I do not think it an easier life, but I could have done it. And I think it would be a great step forward for our community, a great step indeed. Men would be much more nurturing and probably raise more nurturing sons, but it would also be a step forward in the drama, so it could be a set back as well. One man in a community of women is begging for drama.
But as it is, who stays at home anyway? Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years |
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A4 |
My wife stays at home and it has been real tough. It has been worth it though.
We homeschool as well. The New Blog is Up more Black Talk, Politics, Religion, Economics Etc.: http://fromthemachine.wordpress.com/ |
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The Watcher |
I'd do it in a heartbeat.
All the "roles" in a romantic relationship should be based on the compromises & negotiation of the couple. Too many people worry about what people outside of the relationship think. Societal norms overemphasize income as a measure of "how much" a person contributes to a household. ------------------------------ R.I.F. (Reading IS Fundamental)... "There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general: (1) Recklessness, which leads to destruction; (2) cowardice, which leads to capture; (3) a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults; (4) a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame; (5) over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble." -Sun Tzu |
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B3 |
Excuse me brothas....
Just a lil information here. If you stay at home or have a spouse who stays at home, and need more income, there are several sites you can go to, to find valid (no scam) work at home. This first site is one of my favorites. A Woman named Kelly Land owns this site and she takes the time to really research what work at home outfits are real and which ones are scammers. The site is Money Making Mommy She covers all types of jobs, from telecommuting to typist positions. She even lists, FOR FREE, all of the companies that need "at home" workers. Another site like that is Work At Home Moms This site is really good if you are good on the phones. It is for the West Corporation in Omaha, Nebraska. You answer phones (routed to your home) for companies like HSN, Pizza Hut, The Toy Place, etc... They pay twice a month, via check or direct deposit, and you set your own working schedule. They pay per minute of phone time and extensive training on ALL products. The Site is West Work At Home Another company like this is located in the Sillicon Valley. For this company, you do have to pay $30 for your background check, however, they offer a lot more "benefits" so to speak. They also pay on the 1st and 15th of the month, you set your own schedule and they have extensive training on most Infomercial products, pizza hut, 411, HSN, etc.... Again, calls are routed to your home during the time that you choose to answer calls at home. They pay per call as well with incentives. The site is LiveOps There are several other "phone companies" out there, but West and LiveOps are the best by far. They also pay the most. It is possible to make over $1500 per month of part time income. If you like more "freelance" type work, there are several that I'd recommend. The first site allows you to use your expertise to answer people's questions and possibly garner work on specific projects. That site is Kasamba. Another like that is Elance You can put up your expertise and try to outbid other freelancers on various projects. If you like providing your voice for services, there is a company called Voice123. It is a great way to get into commercials and other "voice over" work. Their site is Voice123 Good Morning America also has a segment that covers "Work from Home" as well...they list loads of "work at home" jobs that are legit. I'm trying to put together a huge list of links to other businesses and when I have that done, I will be sure to post it. To my knowledge, a lot of the fortune 500 need "work at home" workers. As companies begin to go "green", you will see this trend more so if need be, brush up on some skills if you'd like to be working from home in the near future, as that is definitely coming. "Wisdom Is Always A Woman Who Tells!" "Don't talk about it: BE ABOUT IT!" "To BE One, ASK ONE!" -OES |
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C2 |
thanx for your responses fellas (and shayabuther). i was wondering whether the idea would be an immediate turn off to men or if this is something you might consider. it's interesting to see that many of you are flexible about this idea.
the article did mention some major challenges like the responses of friends and family, as well as the loneliness and isolation a man would feel. Not many mommy groups are going to be comfortable inviting a man to the network. one man in the article said that he learned a network of mommies he was trying to connect with were excluding him because they weren't comfortable with him around. imagine the ripping you'd get from buddies and your wife's family. some mothers reported feeling jealous of their husbands closeness with the children, too. i had a coworker whose husband stayed home. when the children were in school and he was ready to return to work, he was discriminated against by employers who looked down on the gap in his resume. but she pointed out that if she stayed home, it would not be held against her when she was ready to return to work. she's got a point there. yes it would take some getting used to. {SAY WHAT YOU WANT. I'VE GOT A POINT THOUGH, EVEN IF YOU WON'T ADMIT IT.} |
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B3 |
You know, I was listening to the trend of "mannies" watching children. The ideal is that a Man can do wonders with children just because they tend to have a lot of energy and can run the kids ragged....LOL....and it seems to work! There are also "daddy" groups, however, I know it is harder for Men to find them given that Men don't advertise it as much. Ya'll need a "Daddy Daycare" MoveMent....LOL! "Wisdom Is A Woman!" "Don't talk about it: BE ABOUT IT!" "To BE One, ASK ONE!" -OES |
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Vanguard |
As far as being a set back or being progress, I think it's important to point out how extremely rare an occurrence like this would be. The vast majority of families can't afford to go on one income, be it the father's or the mother's. In almost all cases, two income families are the reality of life in America. So anything that breaks from that norm isn't going to mean much at all when it comes to questions of "set backs" or "progress". In the rare case that one parent makes enough money that the other can stay home with the children, I'd consider that a bonus no matter who it is. As I read over the debate in Sista's Spot, it occurs to me that the general assumption being made is that the mother in the situation of a "stay-at-home dad" makes considerably more money than the father... as if her income is double or triple his. That being the case, from an economic standpoint it makes sense for the father to stay home with the kids. My problem with that scenerio is that it's almost purely theorhetical. How often does this actually happen? How many women out there make two or three times more than their men? Don't get me wrong, I know they're out there. I have a cousin who makes serious bank! When she and her husband have kids I'm sure he'll be a house husband. In many ways it's an extreme example of the income differential between Black men and women. She's a Black woman with a master's degree and he's a Black man with a bachelor's. She's in an industry that leverages major cash flow, and he's not. She's more valuable (because she has a master's) and less threatening (because she's a woman), which makes it easier for her to get better jobs and promotions... and therefore even more money. That said, this scenerio is about as common finding a $100 bill on the street... because generally women don't marry that far down the economic ladder. If we're talking about two middle income people, where the husband makes 25k yearly and woman make 35k yearly, then this is a moot point. They're both working. If we're talking about a woman who makes 50k yearly or more, she's in an entirely different pool of men. "Mr. 25k A Year" can't even get a date... let alone be fathering kids. When that woman is making close to six figures it's all over. She's marrying someone who makes somewhere in the realm of what she's making, because those are the people she's associating with. Then it all becomes a moot point again, because if she's making 75k yearly and he's making 50k yearly... it doesn't matter who stays home. They ain't starvin'. At this point it makes sense to me to follow traditional gender roles in most cases. Psychologically, men attribute a large part of their identity and self worth to how they make their living. Rightly or wrongly, men who are not working tend to fall into social, mental, and emotional malaise. There are many ways that a well dicsiplined man can avoid this, but it's a lot of work. Our brains are wired to function a certain way, so we need to create a home environment that caters to that. If I were going to do it, I would have to have some project that I was working on daily (writing a book, getting a degree, community organization). But then, the actual home management would probably suffer. I think generally it's easier for men to work than to not work. Not working is a lot of hard work. Ubuntu - I am what I am, because of who we all are. "Peace is not merely the absence of tension, it is the presence of justice." - MLK www.PersonalSafetyInstitute.org |
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Tasmanian Angel |
Actually, BV, the dynamics don't have to be quite that profound. My nephew and his wife are facing an almost similar dilemma right now. They both make probably around $$35 - $40,000 each. My nephew, actually brngs home more because there are substantial bonuses that come with his performance. However, they are about to pop out their third child ... and when they did the figures of childcare, transportation/gas, and other expenses, it turned out his wife would only be netting about $300 a month, as bring-home pay.  Now, while any money is good money, they are weighing whether or not it's worth the cost. On the flip side, though, her insurance coverage is better than my nephew's, and their first two kids have asthma and there are doctor bills and medication costs for that. While they are definitely living better when both their incomes, one could quit and they wouldn't. And while they are leaning toward her being the one to stay home ('cause of course she wants to be with her babies), it might turn out to be him that takes the stay-at-home route, just because it's economically more viable. BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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Phoenix Rising |
What about a part time job the guy in the scenario above? My grandfather and many of the men in my family worked two jobs to get through humps... it was just a part of their sense of male responsibility to care for the women and children they called to be their wife and the children they created together....
But then again they grew up in a time where the ideal man was NOT an artist of any kind (rapper, pimp, actor, athlete, model, singer)... Men were defined in part by their ability to care for and protect their women and children, make serious strides in the world, and their successful ability to compete with other men (even if they weren't good at it! lol) .... men today want image, fluff, and to compete with women... Peace, Khalliqa "The Goddess emerges as the evanescence of the inferior dissipates.... " |
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A1 |
No matter how rare a particular occurrence is, if the media reports on the existence of the occurrence, the inference made by the reader is that the occurrence is far more common than it really is, or that it represents a growing trend (which, again, leads to an inference of commonality).
The Essence article, from the sound of it, was designed to lead the reader to believe, "Wow, now black men are staying at home while the wife works." Of course the next issue will talk about how black men and women don't even get married, but for this issue, at least, they do, but the men stay home and raise the kids. These situations are definitely not the norm, and they never will be. But for the ones that exist, they represent what DDouble said. What does the couple think is best for them and their situation? Which way will best help them meet their goals? The rest of us probably need to just mind our business. ____________________________________________________ |
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A1 |
And artists can't strive to "protect their women and children" or "make serious strides in the world" or "compete with other men"?  |
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Phoenix Rising |
I forgot what board I was on for a minute!  grrrr.... nope... they are in the business of exerting their talents, energy and time for entertainment purposes... Many artists during times of war/turmoil can be found in interviews admitting their sense of impotence... at only being able to sing, dance etc... I suppose an exception would be men who manipulate artists.. make money off them and use the money to invest in global financing...  But that's a whole nutha convo...This is AG's fault... I was offline.. and he dragged me back on... I'm calling him out and blaming him SOLELY! Peace, Khalliqa "The Goddess emerges as the evanescence of the inferior dissipates.... " |
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A1 |
Toni Morrison is an artist. Richard Wright. John Coltrane. Gordon Parks... |
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A1 |
Now this discussion seems to be taking a nose dive into the realm of "the only real men are businessmen, politicians, and soldiers". |
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Phoenix Rising |
No... this discussion is nosediving into my personal opinion... and I do not want to do that... and I'm over my personal limit of time spent on the net for today... but to answer your question, the men you listed (businessman, soldier etc. ) are not the only ones but certainly fit into that scenario... I consider the artists you listed to be definitely decent males... and good entertainers... especially "Trane"... but not someone I would seek to provide, protect and/or guide... but definitely to relax or get emotionally riled up over... by the way, Isn't Toni Morrison a female?? Peace, Khalliqa "The Goddess emerges as the evanescence of the inferior dissipates.... " |
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A1 |
OK. I'll provide another Nobel laureate. This time male: Wole Soyinka. |
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A2 |
 I see nothing WRONG with a stay at home Dad. Especially if he is in to the KIDS i.e. getting them ready for school, giving them breakfast, preparing lunch, taking them to school, being there to pick them up and helping with homework. Plus preparing dinner while doing the chores There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with reverse roles. If it is done with a teamplayer attitude. Cuz there are some mothers who do not need to AROUND any kids including their own....go to WORK! There are some mothers who do not have the maternal instinct to nurture and also do not have the patience to be good stay at home parent. Before, mothers of this kind was STUCK at home making the children and themselves miserable...mostly cuz these mothers were told THEY had to stay at home to be considered good parents-NOT! Sometimes you may have a couple who is the exact opposite of the so-called stereotype role. And for them, time is wasted trying to fit that square in that circle. This is a NEW day. If it's better for the husband to be at home....let him if he wants! If it's better for the wife to be at work and she makes enough money to support the whole family....let her! Cuz the way it is now....it is just NOT working. Divorces are more than 50%....so who is it gonna HURT to try? Let's not get stuck in these old fashioned roles...cuz we know appointed "roles" like this does not always work....even if it is WRITTEN or passed down. But! JMHO...is all. |
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A2 |
One of my best friends from college was a stay at home dad. He lived in San Diego. I went out to visit him once. They had a nice house, he was left a house when his mother died, so they sold that and bought a really nice place in the hills. His wife was a state employee.
He did everything, he got the kids up in the morning, cooked their breakfasts, fixed their lunches and took them to school. WHile they were at school he cleaned the house and got dinner. He would also take a little time to go write, because writing is what he wanted to do, movies, TV, stuff like that. When the kids came home he lorded over them and their homework. Fixed dinner, the whole nine. The thing is, there was nothing in the least bit not masculine about the way he did shit. He did it like a man would do it, found a system and worked it. IN the evenings he would play pool at a neighborhood bar or darts or something. There was precious little sitting on his ass, though we did manage to get some video games in. He ran that joint like it was the barracks. He did not just sit on his ass at home, he hustled scripts on the phone, got local directing jobs, he was still making money, but not nearly as much as his wife was. I wish detractors could have seen that. Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years |
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A1 |
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