I'm still looking for a clear definition of the term 'Strong' here. Does 'Strong' mean 'Angry', 'Argumentative', 'Attitudinal', or 'Aggressive'??


I would have made this a 'Riot Starter' topic, but I'm really enjoying the current "Sista freedom rides to Italy" riot.


Discuss

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RadioRaheem,

http://www.colorofchange.org/jena6/

Interview about the movie 'Tired Black Man'


http://www.npr.org/templates/dmg/popup.php?id=5475570&t...leModifier=&mtype=WM

http://www.npr.org/templates/dmg/popup.php?id=5475572&t...leModifier=&mtype=WM

http://www.npr.org/templates/dmg/popup.php?id=5475574&t...leModifier=&mtype=WM

http://www.npr.org/templates/dmg/popup.php?id=5475576&t...leModifier=&mtype=WM

http://www.npr.org/templates/dmg/popup.php?id=5475578&t...leModifier=&mtype=WM

quote:

Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
I'm still looking for a clear definition of the term 'Strong' here. Does 'Strong' mean 'Angry', 'Argumentative', 'Attitudinal', or 'Aggressive'??


I would have made this a 'Riot Starter' topic, but I'm really enjoying the current "Sista freedom rides to Italy" riot.


Discuss

Mornin' Mr. Riot Starter!

Excellent question. So much hyperbole is thrown around with no common frame of reference. It becomes meaningless.

Also, instead of 'Angry', 'Argumentative', 'Attitudinal', or 'Aggressive'??, I might say 'Concerned', 'Focused', or 'Assertive'.

I've never been accused of be a 'strong woman' so I'm curious to see how a variety of men define it.

More often than not, most black women blur the meaning of 'strong' with the meaning of 'angry'. You don't have to be a bitch to put your foot down and get your point across/gain respect. You can be assertive, consistent, and professional without putting your feelings into a matter to the point of making what should have been an easily rectifiable matter into an overblown ordeal. This can be said for both the office and matters at home in regards to many black women.

But what's the first reaction? To ignore, marginalize, and even emasculate. Many black women have no problem with criticizing black men up and down but the second a black man has something to say about a black woman, then all of a sudden we're bashing. The bottom line is criticism is criticism. Instead of being defensive many black women can learn from the constructive criticism that's given out there on a daily basis by sincerely concerned brothers out there.

quote:

Originally posted by RadioRaheem:

I'm still looking for a clear definition of the term 'Strong' here. Does 'Strong' mean 'Angry', 'Argumentative', 'Attitudinal', or 'Aggressive'??

I think it depends upon your perspective. To white folks? Anything "strong" and "black" equals angry, aggressive, scary, criminal, overbearing, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
More often than not, most black women blur the meaning of 'strong' with the meaning of 'angry'....

But what's the first reaction? To ignore, marginalize, and even emasculate. Many black women have no problem with criticizing black men up and down but the second a black man has something to say about a black woman, then all of a sudden we're bashing. The bottom line is criticism is criticism. Instead of being defensive many black women can learn from the constructive criticism that's given out there on a daily basis by sincerely concerned brothers out there.

Hmmmmm. I can agree (to a point) with this. I've seen some sisters, who are in reality "angry", over-react to fairly innocent comments and defend their over-reaction with the counter "You just can't deal with a 'strong' black woman."

It is probably also the case that there a lot of men who really can't deal with intelligent self-assertive women and hide their inability by confusing 'strong' with 'angry'.

In either case, this semantic game seems to get in the way of real communication between men and women. The upshot is that these terms are used to gain the upper hand in discussion. A single word can suffice to put the burden of responsibility on the other person.

There is general confusion on the part of both genders about the meanings of these terms. What term is used and in what sense depends upon the person using it and the intent of usage seems to be generally defensive.

quote:

Originally posted by MBM:

quote:

Originally posted by RadioRaheem:

I'm still looking for a clear definition of the term 'Strong' here. Does 'Strong' mean 'Angry', 'Argumentative', 'Attitudinal', or 'Aggressive'??

I think it depends upon your perspective. To white folks? Anything "strong" and "black" equals angry, aggressive, scary, criminal, overbearing, etc.

When it involves whites especially, yes it is a similar thing at work.

It absolves them of the responsibilty to take what you say seriously. As in "Why are you so angry?"

quote:

Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
I'm still looking for a clear definition of the term 'Strong' here. Does 'Strong' mean 'Angry', 'Argumentative', 'Attitudinal', or 'Aggressive'??

I wouldn't define "Strong" as any of those terms. They all have negative connotations.

I can't tell you how a man would define a 'strong' Black woman ... but, I would describe her as 'independent', 'self-sufficient', 'not easily influenced' 'principled', 'ambitious', 'not overwhelmed by emotion'. In short, I would describe her as "self-contained."

I don't think a Strong Black Woman has to describe herself as such, and, in fact, I believe that many that do, are not. For a real SBW, her persona speaks for itself.

This is a shaky example ... but, I would say someone who presents herself as a true strong Black woman would be Condelezza Rice.

That's my .02.

Black men don't want strong women??????

quote:

Originally posted by EbonyRose:

This is a shaky example ... but, I would say someone who presents herself as a true strong Black woman would be Condelezza Rice. That's my .02.

I wouldn't describe her as independent. She does nothing that Bush et al hasn't approved or directed her to do.

She is also not representative of what is typically referred to as Strong Black Woman.

I have my beefs with the term, but i'm sure there are several old threads which have already dissected the phenomenon of referring to oneself as

"Strong Black Woman"

quote:

Originally posted by negrospiritual:

Black men don't want strong women??????

This one has been nurtured and raised by strong black women and can't live without them in his life!

quote:

Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Black men don't want strong women??????

Who said that?

Is there belief that Strong Black Woman= woman who works to make money and is equal to her husband and is looked at as the same as him in every way? One who may have a man in her life... but could live without him just the same? One who believes that men and women are exactly the same except for organ differentiation? A woman who can raise her own children, work, and ask her husband to do the exact same thing as she does except birth the baby and nurse it?

IMHO, a strong woman is assertive, confident, independent, creative; demands and gives respect, love, and understanding.

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by negrospiritual:
This is a shaky example ... but, I would say someone who presents herself as a true strong Black woman would be Condelezza Rice. That's my .02.

I wouldn't describe her as independent. She does nothing that Bush et al hasn't approved or directed her to do.

Dr. Rice has many admirable character traits. However she has not proven herself to be independent.

quote:

Black men don't want strong women??????

I think you have to make a distinction between 1) the social usage of the term by men in a demeaning sense (with the stand ins "aggressive", "angry", "loud") and by some women in a defensive sense ... and 2) a definition that is more intrinsic to what might be considered "good" character.

As for the first, see my first post above.

As for the second, I think Ebony said it best:

quote:

EbonyRose:
I don't think a Strong Black Woman has to describe herself as such, and, in fact, I believe that many that do, are not. For a real SBW, her persona speaks for itself.

Of course, what constitutes "good" character and "strength" in a black woman might be subject to debate.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: HonestBrother,

I'M AN ELITIST TOO.

quote:

Originally posted by kresge:
IMHO, a strong woman is assertive, confident, independent, creative; demands and gives respect, love, and understanding.

I think these are buzz words that cover for the above written underlying positions...

quote:

Originally posted by Khalliqa:

quote:

Originally posted by kresge:
IMHO, a strong woman is assertive, confident, independent, creative; demands and gives respect, love, and understanding.

I think these are buzz words that cover for the above written underlying positions...

which ones?

quote:

Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Black men don't want strong women??????

Maybe a better (and less ambiguous) question might be if black men want women of "good" character? The "good" character of the woman would then constitute her "strength".

You will probably get a unanimous "yes" as an answer.

But if we go on to ask about what traits constitute good female character then that's where the disagreement is going to start.

The type of Strong Black Woman that is celebrated in television, music, and many of those "urban novels"


is someone who defiantly states that she does not need a man, operates from a center of pain and hurt, and is fierce with the tongue lashing...

However a true "Strong Black Woman" has all those characteristics Kresge posted

plus

she realizes that interdependency and dependency are different things...

IMHO

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:

Maybe a better (and less ambiguous) question might be if black men want women of "good" character? The "good" character of the woman would then constitute her "strength".

Quite diplomatic, but not at all what I feel Raheem is asking...

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:

I wouldn't describe her as independent. She does nothing that Bush et al hasn't approved or directed her to do.

Dr. Rice has many admirable character traits. However she has not proven herself to be independent.

So, are you saying that she did not exist before Bush? That she was made who she is only because/when Bush entered her life?

I believe she got the position she has because she was who she became long before she even met the president. And that he had nothing to do with any of that.