I been listening to a song.

It's so passionately sung about intimacy.

It's an old song. It's sung by a man.

This song is sung so well it's the most

intensely sung song I've ever heard.

He wins an award for most enthusiastic.

He is so happy in his sung. The song is

at this url:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2YOz0mA8tQ

quote:

Originally posted by Charismaallover:
I been listening to a song.

It's so passionately sung about intimacy.

It's an old song. It's sung by a man.

This song is sung so well it's the most

intensely sung song I've ever heard.

He wins an award for most enthusiastic.

He is so happy in his sung. The song is

at this url:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2YOz0mA8tQ

"It's an old song. It's sung by a man."

Sorry, but for many of us, 1990 was not that long ago. And "the man" is Johnny Gill, who I started listing to in high school when he was with New Edition.

quote:

Originally posted by kresge:

quote:

Originally posted by Charismaallover:
I been listening to a song.

It's so passionately sung about intimacy.

It's an old song. It's sung by a man.

This song is sung so well it's the most

intensely sung song I've ever heard.

He wins an award for most enthusiastic.

He is so happy in his sung. The song is

at this url:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2YOz0mA8tQ

"It's an old song. It's sung by a man."

Sorry, but for many of us, 1990 was not that long ago. And "the man" is Johnny Gill, who I started listing to in high school when he was with New Edition.

That's what I was thinking. Who she calling "Old"?

A baby born when that song came out is 18 this year.

So I gotta acknowledge, the song is kinda old...

When I was 18, "Tears of a Clown," which came out around the time I was born, was ANCIENT!

As for this cut here, I always found it to be "just okay." But it was one of the better mainstream R&B songs to come out during a HORRIBLE period for r&b.

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:
A baby born when that song came out is 18 this year.

So I gotta acknowledge, the song is kinda old...

I'm sorry. I'm not gonna let this one go.

If 18 years is enough to make the song "old" ... is it enough to make the teenager "old"?

quote:

When I was 18, "Tears of a Clown," which came out around the time I was born, was ANCIENT!

"Tears of a Clown" is neither ancient nor old. It is a classic.

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:
A baby born when that song came out is 18 this year.

So I gotta acknowledge, the song is kinda old...

I'm sorry. I'm not gonna let this one go.

If 18 years is enough to make the song "old" ... is it enough to make the teenager "old"?

Hmmm... Interesting point. I guess it's a matter of perspective. Are a pair of shoes from 1990 old?

The other day, I happened to be flipping thru radio stations. One of the hip-hop/r&b stations introduced Promise, by Ciara, as a "back in the day joint." I damn near had to pull over. The song came out in like 2005.

quote:

When I was 18, "Tears of a Clown," which came out around the time I was born, was ANCIENT!

"Tears of a Clown" is neither ancient nor old. It is a classic.[/QUOTE]

You seem to see these terms as mutually exclusive. Can't it be both? In fact, doesn't it HAVE to be old in order to be classic? If it hasn't stood the test of time, how can it be a classic? My absolute favorite songs of today, no matter how great I think they are, can't be considered classics yet, right?

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:
A baby born when that song came out is 18 this year.

So I gotta acknowledge, the song is kinda old...

I'm sorry. I'm not gonna let this one go.

If 18 years is enough to make the song "old" ... is it enough to make the teenager "old"?

Hmmm... Interesting point. I guess it's a matter of perspective. Are a pair of shoes from 1990 old?

The other day, I happened to be flipping thru radio stations. One of the hip-hop/r&b stations introduced Promise, by Ciara, as a "back in the day joint." I damn near had to pull over. The song came out in like 2005.

quote:

quote:

When I was 18, "Tears of a Clown," which came out around the time I was born, was ANCIENT!

"Tears of a Clown" is neither ancient nor old. It is a classic.

You seem to see these terms as mutually exclusive. Can't it be both? In fact, doesn't it HAVE to be old in order to be classic? If it hasn't stood the test of time, how can it be a classic? My absolute favorite songs of today, no matter how great I think they are, can't be considered classics yet, right?

@Vox,

I'm partly being silly and clowning here. But, in regards to the part of me that has a straight face on, my insistence has a lot do with wider reflections on black culture and art.

We've had some of this debate on the board before. For instance, my insistence that we specify "corporate hip hop" in discussions decrying the state of hip hop.

The more I've thought about it, the more sense it makes. Why? Because there are tons of instances which parallel this one but in which no one makes the mistake of confusing the part with the whole - no matter how big the part happens to be.

For example, there are far more trashy novels out there than there are Jane Eyres or Beloveds. But no one takes the preponderance of trashy novels as an indictment of the "novel" itself. This is the effect that mass commerce has upon art. So people don't wring their hands and bemoan "the novel" per se. They're specific about the genre.

Which brings me to my point: Because of the relative youth of African American culture and because so much of what is great about that culture is intertwined with "pop culture" and so is particularly susceptible to market forces, if we have an eye towards promoting cultural health and vitality, I think we need to be that much more aware of the language we use with regard to our own cultural production.

No one (or at least very few people) would call Imagine by John Lennon "old" (at least not among white folks). Not even the teenagers. At least not the cool teenagers.

So why is Tears of a Clown "old"?

quote:

The other day, I happened to be flipping thru radio stations. One of the hip-hop/r&b stations introduced Promise, by Ciara, as a "back in the day joint." I damn near had to pull over. The song came out in like 2005.

I find stuff like this extremely disturbing (I'm not kidding). Why are we (African Americans) so ready to chuck our own cultural production into the trash bin of history?

By the way, the question is rhetorical. I think know the answer. I just don't think we should be happy with that particular state of affairs.

Anyway ... please excuse the ramble.

Actually, I really was mostly playing up above.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: HonestBrother,

I'M AN ELITIST TOO.

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:
A baby born when that song came out is 18 this year.

So I gotta acknowledge, the song is kinda old...

I'm sorry. I'm not gonna let this one go.

If 18 years is enough to make the song "old" ... is it enough to make the teenager "old"?

Hmmm... Interesting point. I guess it's a matter of perspective. Are a pair of shoes from 1990 old?

Yes. In this instance, one throws them away and gets new ones.

But do we really want to extend the analogy to the cultural realm?

quote:

Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Are a pair of shoes from 1990 old?

Yes. In this instance, one throws them away and gets new ones.

But do we really want to extend the analogy to the cultural realm?

What if the shoes are hardly worn? They're in perfectly good condition, but they were purchased in 1990. Are they still old? What about a piece of video footage from back then?

Cultural realm... What if we live in a culture of disposable consumerism? Obviously, some great music transcends the moment of their release. But we know, for example, that there's no way "Tears of a Clown" would even have been written, much less recorded, if there were no expectation of commercial reward.

Relatedly, while I disagree with you that white people don't consider "Imagine" to be "old," you do raise a good point about white music being given more props on a transcendent, cultural level than most black music. The genius of Motown, though, is that they figured out how to spin out undeniably "classic" music, that nevertheless was very commercial, very assembly-line, and very pop.

Is "My My My" a classic? CharismaaLover thinks it is. Who decides?

Some of it is about an old soul. It's like we been here before. I believe it's a classic because
it's not a song that will fade. It will go on
forever. Most of the songs I hear today
don't have that deep of a voice. They are
great and moving, but the voice's tone is not
deep even though the song is deep.