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A1 |
Condescension aside  I was actually referring to several noted Black social commentators who happen to be male, ie, Clarence Page, Michael Myers, Ofari Hutchinson, etc. I had written in another post that the apparent comfort with which a white male on public airways attacked black female sexuality seemed lost on these "notable social commentator" type brothers. They couched it in terms of racism vs. freedom of speech. There was no real outrage at degrading black women as rough/ugly/hardcore/whore, because they are dark skinned. Shouldn't this have been an outrage? Shouldn't Imus have received death threats from Brothas and sistas?I read your piece several times. It seems too much of a moderate approach to me. It seems to excuse Imus, a millionaire white man/beltway darling with a few million listeners, as irrelevant. It seems to let him, and those he represents (the country's powerful and political elite) off the hook for dismissing black womanhood and spreading the perception that it's ok to do so. McCaine, Juliani, Kerry, Dick Cheyney, Bill Clinton, Harold Ford  , and other (MOSTLY MALE) power players frequent his show and millions more listen. To chastise Imus and publicly process his consequences sends the message to the so-called power elite that it's not ok to dismiss black womanhood in policy, practice or play. And so, I say what I say, not because I haven't read the piece, but because I disagree with what you said in the piece. Dealing with rappers and music executives is equally important, but not MORE PRESSING than the process of dealing with Imus and his Ilk. To say, "IMUS IS GONE NOW WHAT" seems to skip completely over the fact that IMUS represents just as much if not more power than RECord company execs do the fact that a white man tried to set the tone by dismissing black womanhood the fact that he brought the slave auction element back to black female sexuality, and it throws the baby out with the bathwater. Imus words, actions, and consequences must be fully absorbed and processed by all components of society so that a new dialogue regarding SEXISM and RACISM can begin.
When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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Founder |
With all due respect, Imus has NEVER gotten big ratings. His reach was just 350,000. That doesn't compare to the MILLIONS and MILLIONS that are negatively influenced by songs and videos that play over and over and over and have influenced darn near everyone in this country (and the planet) with respect to how everyone perceives African Americans. Moreover, are you really trying to say that Imus has more influence than the institutions who have created and marketed the gangsta phenomenon? Really? Hip Hop - its culture and attitudes - have seeped into EVERY corner of African America. Do you really think that any African American kid hasn't been touched by it somewhere? Unless and until you can embrace who and why those negative aspects of that culture is such a hot commodity, then being upset with it is just an exercise in self-flagellation. Did you hear that none of the Rutgers players had ever even heard of Don Imus? Do you think they have heard of Fifty Cent?   |
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A1 |
MBM,
Imus only reached 350,000 with his SIMULCAST on MSNBC. His radio audience is larger. He is one of the original shock jocks, has been on-air for over 30 years and is widely known for a variety of reasons including his philanthropic efforts. The Beltway Boys and best seller authors aren't frequenting his show just for 350,000 simulcast viewers When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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A1 |
You are aware that it was Imus who shamed politicians into raising the death benefit for Iraq war veterans as well as Imus who first took politicians to Walter Reed to view the conditions and treatment they receive? His most recent rant was regarding to Thymarisol content in childhood vaccines which may contribute to autism, until big drug companies started complaining..
In other words...this white man is able to effect government and national policy. When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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Founder |
I agree. I don't hold them blameless. Certainly some artists have rejected the choice of either doing it their way or not doing it at all. BUT - the fact is that the genre wouldn't even exist to the degree that it does if it weren't for the one's cutting the record deals, writing the checks, and signing the artists. If all of the rappers just stopped rapping today - you can be sure that a new generation of rappers would be in their place in 10 minutes. I'd rather attack the problem in a way that removes the incentives and stops the flow from the source. |
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Founder |
You're right. Imus In The Morning, reaches about 3.25 million radio listeners a week, according to industry trade journal Talkers Magazine (plus another 335,000 an hour on TV). His radio audience is about a quarter of Limbaugh's weekly following and less than half of Stern's. 3.25 million divided by 5 = 650,000 listeners per day. Plus the 335,000/hr from TV and that's less than 2 million listeners per day. (BTW - aside from having much greater ratings, both Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern are FAR more racist and sexist than Imus!) Again - how can you compare less than a couple of million people per day with the reach of hip hop music on cd's, tapes, radio, television, magazines, clothing, commercials, etc.???? Heck American Idol gets 30 million viewers a night! I'm not disputing that Imus had clout in the media. I just don't think his influence is anywhere near what an entire industry and music genre is. Now that he's been fired, you know someone else will be in his chair Monday morning. Who's to say that without influencing those people who hire and fire the on-air talent that they won't put someone who ends up in the same place thematically that Imus did? |
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Founder |
So . . . sounds like you like Imus!  |
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Tasmanian Angel |
Hmmmmm ... that's really interesting, negrospirtual!  In the little that I listened to all the news reports on this story, I do remember hearing that he had some "good sides" to him ... but I suppose, like most, I dismissed that part of it and honed in on the "one bad thing" that he did! Those were important issues and certainly needed a light shed upon them. People say you've gotta take the good with the bad ... kinda makes you wonder! BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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Tasmanian Angel |
You were wrong for that!  
So let's do it then!!  I would have absolutely no idea who these people are or the companies that they run ... but it shouldn't be too hard to get names/addresses/phone numbers for them! And I could try to find a little bit of time to at least draft a letter (although any and all ideas as to content to go in them would be more than appreciated!) ... but, we could put them on notice that if they don't start to do something about this problem ... we will!  Hmmmm .. maybe start a tread about ideas ... or have a brainstorm chat session to gauge what everyone would like to say? BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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A1 |
MBM,
by all means, please proceed. But your posts make it seem like it's wrong to pay attention to what racist media types are doing to black womanhood, because rappers and music executives are a more obvious target... My initial post on this commentary was, Yes, let's deal with rappers and music execs but let's also deal with the media types who propagate racism and sexism to the masses. WE CAN AND SHOULD DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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A1 |
the tv remote control in our bedroom hasn't worked in over a year. I fall asleep at night watching Olberman and Hardball, when we wake up, Imus in the Morning simulcast is on while we're getting ready for work. I listen to NPR tom joyner or doug banks in the car. So, yes, I have.....errr....ummm.... ahhh...watched Imus, ok? And I wrote a letter of complaint to MSNBC about comments he made about star jones...with no response  What caught my attention was his interviews with Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, Harold Ford Jr, Dick Cheney, Rick Santorum, Tim Russert, Mccain and other notables... And the BB king riffs during the breaks But I am not a fan I merely brought up those things to say the man has a lot of influence and the things he says can become de facto policy, including degradation of black women in the public eye, on public airwaves. Politicians, legislators, social commentators frequent his show, which gives him and his ilk access to american policay makers. For that reason, in my mind, it's worth paying attention to the poison spread to the masses by him, limbaugh, beck, and others as much as rappers and record execs. It's worth repeating that SEXISM and RACISM existed in american culture before gangsta rap and reforming rap is a necessary step, but not the means to an end for evil twins SEXISM and RACISM.
When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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A1 |
Just a reminder about the dominant society's males historical approach to black female sexuality.
The Hottentot Venus When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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C2 |
Peace....
Very well said MBM. While I generally agree with your position, I think it is only fair that we distribute the blame in a more equitable manner. Gangsta Rap sells not only because of the power of marketing forces which ooze from corporate board rooms, but because it reaches the alpha persona on the street level. The real spiritual pedophile enjoys peddling the message of Gangsta rap because it glorifies what would otherwise be a viewed as a horrendous lifestyle. Travelling the dangerous corridors of thug living you will often hear the names "Tupac", "Biggie", "Scarface". Hustlers can be found raising the names of dead street prophets to get a new convert to assimilate. They say " Nigga, like Pac said dogg Don't act like we homeboys Ain't no love in the fast life ...This is street level sales which don't have much to do with lining the pocket of some office exec. The thug surviving off selling death to his own neighbors is able to rest his conscious by believing and pushing the idea that there is an urgent necessity which requires the action he has decided to take... Gansta reinforce Gangsta Rap..They legitimize it, they sanction it...They sell the images, they peddle the lifestyle..In the topless bars you get to see the reality of " makin it rain" and how beautiful, naked women scatter to retrieve "work" or money...Gangsta rap is more than just images, for many the lyrics become real... Yu cannot really expect to silence this art form..The best bet is to combat thug living by combating the necessity of it. Young recruits to gangsta living are attracted by the success stories they hear. If there was a competing model which allowed a brother from the hood the chance to remain true to who he is while makin good money you would have a deterent, however, you will never get the attention of the young without providing a way for them to prosper. Gangsta Rap will coexist with Gangstas forever...Well atleast until we can provide a competing model which undermines the need for Thug living... Any ideological assault against Gangsta rap will make it more powerful. Delores Tucker made Tupac more powerful and she probably helped his record sales... Whirling Moat "Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!" And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade. |
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Phoenix Rising |
ASA, Brother Saracen.... May I ask, if it is the successful financial lifestyle that these young thugs are promoting.... does not MBM have a point when he espouses that wresting this away from their arsenal leaves them powerless in the eyes of their peers? At least as a start.... One cannot promote what does not exist.... Gold diggers don't like broke n... so there go the women.... And younger brothers will not see the value in dying as a thug, with no papers to show for its worth... so there goes the replenishment.... And thugging without the high lifestyle does not grant one a way out of the hood or will not give one standing in their environment.... so there goes the incentive... Like the Rothschild's perhaps we must look to "control the purse strings" Salaam....
Peace, Khalliqa "The Goddess emerges as the evanescence of the inferior dissipates.... " |
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C2 |
Peace.....
First, we must make a distinction between gangsta rappers and real thugs on the streets. Sometimes they are one and the same, however most times they are really not. The gangsta rapper would be affected by activism which placed pressure on record companies, however this would have no effect of street gangstas. Conditions in the hood would remain just as depressed and volatile. There would still be few jobs, few opportunities, and a demand for narcotics. Rappers like Master P sold albums from the trunk of cars. Many of the street's worst gangsta rappers are underground artist who become urban legends in local rap markets. Killing the supply would only heighten the demand. Killing the supply would add a romantic edge to Gangsta rap, allowing rappers to wear the garbs of "outlaws" and "rebels" against the system. Underground rap would explode..... When large demographic sections of people have the appetite for something it is damn near impossible to kill the market for what satisfies the hunger...Either it will be sold legitimately or it will be sold from back doors... Gangsta Rap can only be destroyed by destroying the conditions which make it so appealing..That is a major task which is why it never really comes up in discussions regarding the negative effects of this form of rap music. Whirling Moat "Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!" And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade. |
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Phoenix Rising |
Master P's popularity was minimal until he signed to a major label... only known locallly isn't that right?... Do you not agree that once an artist is signed and are marketed by mainstream production companies their income grows exponentially? Are you suggesting that trunk CD sales are comparable to global market sales? Perhaps they will go underground... perhaps not... sole promotion is not a lazy man's game.... not that gangsta's are lazy but how much effort do you really think will pour into door to door... party to party promotion of CD's.... and who will produce these CD's if the industry no longer looks upon the rap industry as profitable? Peace, Khalliqa "The Goddess emerges as the evanescence of the inferior dissipates.... " |
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C2 |
Peace....
Master P created his own label from the trunk of aHis car. Master P was well known in his region. The idea here is that while you may have 20 popular gangster artist now, if you create prohibition you will expand exponentially the amount of producers feeding the demand. The record companies would surrender the market to local gangsters.. When the U.S. tried to prohibit the sale of Liquor it only created an underbelly market. Moonshime parlors and the like, sprang up to meet the demand. Ther mafia made a killing selling illegal booze. The sale and distribution became so much of a problem that they had to lift the ban. Moat "Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!" And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade. |
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