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Sounds good to me! Send it to the dungeon where it belongs. Stop it from being played on radio stations where little children listen to it everyday. Take it off of BET. Make it pay-per-view! In other words, making it less accessible, at the very least, is good for me.

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Relevant to whites only? Are you serious? No wonder we have the issues that we have in our black communities and cannot resolve them. We are our own worse enemies indeed.

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Originally posted by LaToya:
HeruStar,

Good! Mind you, u cannot speak for every African American either! People like Jason Whitlock tell us the truth. But as usual, some of us black people do not want to hear it. We will instead prefer to live in our own created misery! What are you blabbing over there about 'Anytime whites commit an offense, and blacks take up arms.....'

What has your point up there got to do with what we are discussing regarding our people? Let us learn to be responsible for our own actions before pointing that finger of ours at ours. Remember, when you point that finger, three of your own fingers points right back at you!

“While we are indifferent to our good qualities, we keep on deceiving ourselves in regard to our faults, until we come to look on them as virtues.”

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I listen to a lot of black radio djs, from Wendy Williams, Ms. Jones from Hot 97 and Star and Buckwild. I am still in shock that Ms. Jones has not been fired for her Tsunami antics about year and a half ago. On the Wendy Williams show, whenever a person from Africa calls in, she has drums playing in the background. Star and Buckwild for years referred to Latinos as "Spiks" or Rice & Beans eating people". I can go on and on.

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Originally posted by HeruStar:

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I listen to a lot of black radio djs, from Wendy Williams, Ms. Jones from Hot 97 and Star and Buckwild. I am still in shock that Ms. Jones has not been fired for her Tsunami antics about year and a half ago. On the Wendy Williams show, whenever a person from Africa calls in, she has drums playing in the background. Star and Buckwild for years referred to Latinos as "Spiks" or Rice & Beans eating people". I can go on and on.

Obviously society didn't find relevance in these comments or antics. Because if anyones under constant scrutiny it's BLACKS.

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our own are worst at this

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Originally posted by HeruStar:

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our own are worst at this

Can you stand behind this comment with certainty?

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Originally posted by HeruStar:
I don't even think those who are opposed to our agenda would be so bold (and stupid) as to suggest this.

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There is a miscommunication going on - I'll try to clear any up that I've caused.

The first thing I'll say is that I have not endorsed sexism/violence/etc.

The second is that my use of you refers to the collective raining criticism down on "gangster" rap.

In most of the posts here concerning hip hop music, very little has been said about the positives. Perhaps I should have inferred that you acknowledge the existence of these positives. I'm not just speaking of so called "conscious rap", but also the jobs that come from the culture (producers, DJs, street teams, etc.) Making it in hip-hop puts food on a lot of Black folks tables.

Also, in my reading of the posts, I see a lot of "you/they did". This suggests an attempt, in my opinion, to dissociate from these young men & women. Hip-hop is a convenient fall guy, but hip-hop is not the root cause of sexism in our community. Lashing out for banishment of "gangster" rap is like taking Sudafed for a sinus headache - it's masking the symptoms and not addressing the problem. I've see & read a lot of pundits give their opinion on what the problem is - why not go to the source - and in a non-accusatory manner? How likely are you to open up & share your inner-most thoughts when:

1) Life has taught you it's weak to do so
2) You are being attacked

These young folk are very intelligent. They are also concerned about taking care of their needs & the needs of their families. Your win/win is great, but those are things that people contemplate when their basic needs (food, clothing, shelter) are met. So, if these young people like making music and being compensated for it, how does your solution of banning it help them meet their basic needs? You've just stripped away their source of income. What I am conveying is that a win/win means young folk can continue to receive the joy of making hip-hop music and continue to be compensated for it. This is where the crux of the problem is.

Hip-hop is youth music. Most of us have grown out of their target audience. Consequently, what you think should appeal to the youth is irrelevant. What you think of the music is irrelevant to the youth. You are outside the culture and have very little understanding of it. Based on what I've read & seen over the last week, I'll go a step further - you make little effort to respect or understand the culture. Hip-hop culture is much bigger than the one genre you have in the bullseye. The youth have to be convinced that hip-hop can be "real" without the current "gangster" images. The convincing will be done when more artists come into the music game with the values you want to see - because he/she will have the hot lyrics, hot beats, and something "meaningful" to say.

How do you teach a child? Do you constantly yell, berate, and talk down to them? Do you provide choices, explain consequences, and speak firmly yet gently? I offer that you are doing the former and not the latter. Show me an article, commentary or media piece that has offered loving advice as opposed to outright condemnation.


P.S. - Black men are marginalized & emasculated every day

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Originally posted by Rowe:
Our Community Is Suffering

I am disgusted and even hurt by Don Imus' comments, but I am also grateful because his comment has revealed to the world just how devalued Black women are in the eyes of America's general public. Apparently, this is the impression that Don Imus has of African American women: In order to be a hoar, an African American woman doesn't necessarily have to be sexually promiscous. Being an African American woman automatically qualifes her for hoar status. What's more, in the Black community, it is acceptable, cool, and even cute to refer to women as hoes. If you call a Black woman a "hoe," then you are paying her a compliment and expressing endearment. That's just how lowly our community has become. Calling a Black woman a "hoe" is a way of expressing endearment. Can you believe that? And this is the general perception that America has of Black woman - that we like or prefer being called hoes. PATHETIC. What's even more pathetic is not only are Black women being disrespected by men within their community, now we're being disrespected by men outside of our community. Can't say I didn't see this coming.

Why do we make excuses for this disgraceful behavior? Why do we blame everyone else except the person who is responsible and should be held accoutable for thinking, saying, and rapping negative thoughts about a group of people? I don't care WHO the person is or WHAT color they are. Both White men AND Black men should be held accountable for disrespecting women. Period. I don't care how much a rapper is being paid to perform or who finances his career. All of these rappers have mothers. They should be held accoutable rather than coddled. They have grandmothers, aunts, and wives who are raising their children, mostly on their own, and who care very much about them. So why don't these chumps and sell-outs think about them before they dogg women out to make a fast and fleeting buck?

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Originally posted by EbonyRose:

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Originally posted by Kocolicious:
So I will talk slowly... and let you know what many of us women want from men...R-E-S-P-E-C-T! It's up to you to find out what that means....cuz when WE try to tell you...you start talkin about economics...or you shut down completely... can't have it both ways. Although you try...it's NOT WORKIN'... just a thought.

I gotta give an AMEN to that, Ms. Koco!! That is sooooo true, sistagirl! We say we want respect, but they say, well, we can't respect you and make money at the same time ... so you'll have to get over it!

But, you know, another thought occurred to me ... I wonder what the conversation would be if it were men who had their naked asses up in the air, or it was their cracks that were getting swiped with a credit card, or their necks on dog leashes??? Would they be so accommodating if it were them who were constantly being referred to as b*****s and hos and having their manhood reduced to some kind of animalistic form of humanity??

I think not.

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Originally posted by ddouble:
In most of the posts here concerning hip hop music, very little has been said about the positives. Perhaps I should have inferred that you acknowledge the existence of these positives. I'm not just speaking of so called "conscious rap", but also the jobs that come from the culture (producers, DJs, street teams, etc.) Making it in hip-hop puts food on a lot of Black folks tables.

To your point here, I think it is pretty safe to say that on just about any/every subject, rarely is praise given where praise is do. Perhaps it stems from an 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' mentality where people tend to zero in on a problem in an attempt to fix it.

I, personally, don't think that the lack of discussion about what's good about hip hop means that peopole do not acknowledge it. It just means that that's not what's discussed. It's like whenever there is talk of airplanes ... you never hear the exact numbers on how many planes safely reach their destination ... only about how many of them fall from the sky.

But your point is well taken.

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Also, in my reading of the posts, I see a lot of "you/they did". This suggests an attempt, in my opinion, to dissociate from these young men & women. Hip-hop is a convenient fall guy, but hip-hop is not the root cause of sexism in our community.

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So, if these young people like making music and being compensated for it, how does your solution of banning it help them meet their basic needs? You've just stripped away their source of income. What I am conveying is that a win/win means young folk can continue to receive the joy of making hip-hop music and continue to be compensated for it. This is where the crux of the problem is.

And I have to go back to context here. It's not as much of what they say as how they say it. And I firmly believe there has got to be and is a better way.

And as for banning ... let's take Imus, for example. It's doubtful that his being "banned" from radio means that he is now dead and gone. No doubt he'll pop up on satellite. People will have to pay to hear him speak, though. There's also a good chance he will not change his racist/sexist ways, either. But, he is gone from the "general public" airwaves.

I don't think the conversation is about banning hip hop. It's about banning the certain aspect of hip hop which is .. well ... disgusting. And there is such an element within the culture. Moreover, I do believe that if "gangster" were to morph into something more "conscious", and that is what became accepted, I don't believe for a minute that the record cos. would go out of business! They will adapt and sell whatever is popular ... because there is still money to be made from it!!

If hip hop is indeed a culture that has more merit to it than the thug/gangster lifestyle that's depicted in videos, it should be able to elevate itself to a more positive image without killing itself in the process.

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Show me an article, commentary or media piece that has offered loving advice as opposed to outright condemnation.

There is nothing "loving" about gangster rap. Condemnation is it the only thing it's worthy of.

However, I'm all for giving props to the positive aspects of hip hop "culture". I would be more than happy to read articles and stories that articulate the consciousness and forward movement within this culture. You've never heard me put down the efforts of mobilizing young people to become more politically involved. I will talk about Russell Simmons like a dog, though ... for his belief that there's nothing wrong with the degradation of women in rap videos.

Granted ... it's a two-way street ... but I will continue to drive on the right side of the road ... depending which way the traffic is flowing!

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P.S. - Black men are marginalized & emasculated every day