|
Go
|
New
|
Find
|
Notify
|
Tools
|
Reply
|
|
Tasmanian Angel |
MBM ...
Do you have a specific idea/opinion/suggestion as to what should happen to these corporations that are now engaging in these illicit practices?? Do you think that governmental enforcement of the laws that are now on the books would be good enough? Do you propose that we, the people, should be involved and that these companies should be boycotted against? Would you like to see new, tougher laws created to punish them in more/different ways? Since you find they so wholly complicit in this illegal immigration debate (and, I understand they really are the bad guys!), but, what would you suggest is an effect manner to punish/stop their wrongdoing as far as this issue is concerned? Who could/would/should hit them the hardest?  Just curious. 
BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
|||
|
Founder |
Clarity About The Undocumented Labor Issue
BTW . . .
And . . .
Oh yeah . . .
 |
|||
|
|
Tasmanian Angel |
So ... if I'm understanding you right ... what you're looking for is governmental interference/enforcement to compel companies to stop hiring illegal immigrant workers? Do you know if any of the suggestions you've mentioned are already part of the previous immigration reform package? I keep hearing news reports how there are laws already on the books that are not being enforced .. but, I don't remember ever hearing exactly what they are!
 Also ... since there's probably only a snowball's chance that government will ever actually do anything that might actually be detrimental to the profiteering of big business ... have you ever considered any kind of other grassroots-type of solution? Do you think there's anything that we as citizens can do to fight back? I would assume you would be opposed to mass deportation as an alternative? And do you believe that making the illegal immigrants instant citizens will in any way affect the relationship between the corporation and the exploited illegal alien? I'll stop here and take a breath! BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
|||
|
|
Founder |
As a matter of fact I do . . . Taming The Profitocracy
Sure - it will instantly raise the average effective minimum wage - as millions of workers across the country will now fall under the protection of the US government. |
|||
|
|
Tasmanian Angel |
Well, considering that the minimum wage is already slated to rise over the next two years ... are you still suggesting that this is viable? Do you think it would get a bigger boost just because millions are added to the number of workers?? Personally, since it took more than a decade to get an increase for those of us who were/are already citizens ... I can't really see them doing any special favors for the millions who would be added into the mix. I mean, why should they (the gov't.) really care about the crumbs the lower class has to share? BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
|||
|
|
Founder |
These are millions of workers who are currently working beneath the minimum wage - so - the effective wage rises just by protecting all of those jobs that now are 'under the radar'. |
|||
|
|
Tasmanian Angel |
Okay ... I thought I was through ... but, I do have (at least) one more question!
While I realize that this entire subject is about the plight of illegal immigrants/workers (and the corporate influence that's involved) ... is there anything that you have said or believe is a part of your argument that in any way affects or benefits African Americans? Not that it necessarily should, and it's cool if it doesn't ... but, I don't think I've seen (or asked about) anything that does ... and I was just wondering if I may have missed something in that regard! BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
|||
|
|
Founder |
My whole argument is intended to make African America's efforts on this issue more effective. By focusing on the illegal activity of those hiring, it not only gets to the heart of the entire issue, it also impacts the party who can create more jobs in our community (aside from the fact that we need to be creating more jobs for ourselves anyway!). |
|||
|
|
Tasmanian Angel |
Okay ... and just so I'm clear ...
Those efforts would be a reference to 'Taming the Profitocracy' whereby our direct efforts go towards effecting change? And ...
That "party" would be big business/major corporations, correct? BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
|||
|
|
Founder |
Our "efforts" would be anything and everything directed toward resolving this issue from marching to writing letters to our Congresspeople to boycotts to strategic consumer buying to absolutely anything that would help us in this issue.
If collectively we have 100% effort - IMO - whatever % that gets spent on crying about individuals is wasted energy that could be effective at getting the issue resolved. (BTW - that's what those who have an interest in the status quo want - for energy to be directed/diverted away from them.) The parties would be those who are in a position to hire back folks who should have been hired in the first place. |
|||
|
|
Tasmanian Angel |
Okey dokey ... I gotcha!
 Thanks for your indulgence. BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
|||
|
|
Founder |
But you still think I'm a raving lunatic! |
|||
|
|
Tasmanian Angel |
Well ... er um .... now that you mention it!!
 No, not a lunatic, at all.  I do much better understand your perspective now. I can't really say that I agree with it any more than I did before ... because I have always agreed that corporations were wrong for hiring/exploiting illegal immigrants in the manner they do.But, I do have to say that this hasn't swayed me to be as upset about or as diligent towards the situation as you are. And I don't begrudge you any for your stance ... somebody needs to take it and it might as well be you! However, it's not something that I see as a benefit to African Americans, for one, and I just don't really have much of an interest in waging a fight that benefits another group of people that have never shown much of an interest in offering a hand towards us ... when we have our own battles to wage and need so much to take care of ourselves. I can't in any way see where there would be any incentive for those corporations to give or create more jobs for African Americans after legalizing the millions of now illegal immigrants that they employ. With Mexicans, especially, employers find not only a cheap, but a very dedicated workforce .. and there's no way I'm going to believe that those employers would suddenly (and for no particular reason) have some kind of stroke of conscious and start hiring us instead. But ... I do believe we have our own reasons for targeting corporate entities and would be more than happy to do battle against them for things that would be to our benefit help us to gain. And any residual benefits that gets shared by any one else is well and fine if/when and after we get ours. But again, I do see clearer about where you're coming from! And I'm glad you explained it ... because I really did think you were a raving lunatic before today ... but not now! BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
|||
|
A1 |
How would "taming the profitocracy" effect the small construction companies, small farmers, and individuals who go to the parking lot of home depot to pick up "laborers" every day? When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
|||
|
|
Founder |
First, the nature of TTP is to disseminate information throughout grassroots America so that more of us make more informed decisions - or to say it another way - make decisions that include a broader range of considerations than before. If more Americans were aware of the deleterious effect of their actions (e.g. hiring day labor under the table), then perhaps fewer would do it. It's just like making folks aware that shopping at Walmart may save them a few dollars, but in reality has serious consequences to our communities and nation. At the end of the day, the marketing challenge for something like this is whether we can persuade people to define their self interest beyond price and product performance to include things like keeping Americans employed, the environment, a company's social standing etc. Beyond that, increasing the political awareness (of what I see as the true causes) of this problem would hopefully encourage lawmakers to actually enforce the laws that are currently on the books on this matter. |
|||
|
|
Founder |
ER, answer the following question please? 1) Do you have a problem with illegal immigration? If the answer is "yes" - then: 2) Do you want to do something about it? If the answers to the two questions are both "yes", then - as with any effort - don't you have to care about the effectiveness of efforts to attack this problem? If you care about getting black folks more jobs, then how does directing energy and efforts at people who have NO ability to make things better for African Americans help you? The entire population of Mexico (and all of South America, Canada, whoever . . .) could transplant themselves into America and offer to actually pay American companies to work for them. If the companies didn't accept their offer, then their offer would have ZERO effect on American labor. It is the fact that American companies are creating the incentive for undocumented people to come here by breaking the law to hire them that is at the absolute root of this problem. If you disagree with this, please tell me how.  Furthermore, if you want to get back some of the jobs that were filled by undocumented workers, then don't you have to address your efforts (legal, political, economic, whatever . . .) to the people who make the hiring decisions and created the problem in the first place? ER, please consider this equation: A) the number of undocumented workers who have made the decision NOT to hire black folks in America? B) the number of companies that have made the decision to break the law and hire undocumented workers so as not to have to hire black folks in America? In your opinion is A>B or is B>A? African America needs to direct its energy toward whichever group, A or B, that is the greater number. Thoughts? |
|||
|
A2 |
why dont we as a people, advocate for open borders. Just let as many come in as possible. Also lets let them move into our neighborhoods (which we already do) allow them to get all the jobs they can get, they dont need documentation or a background checks. Just use them for us blacks and maybe when these people get enough numbers they will return the favor and look out for our best intrest and then maybe we can rent our housing from them and maybe they will give us jobs!
|
|||
|
|
Founder |
Why not answer some of the questions from the post to ER? Why not deal with the facts? |
|||
|
|
A2 |
what facts are you talking about man? How is taking this viewpoint you have (which i believe is basically the Rhetoric of the National Democratic Party) and get any other group besides us and these illegal aliens to put pressure on these corporations. The very same corporations that pay for both the Democratic and Republican party, but you want us to believe that we can some how fight through the lobbyist, and get a bill that both helps the Illegal immigrants and black people.Might I ask where would the poor and middle class whites fall on this matter. How about the leadership in either of these parties? I mean we cant get any of our pressing issues like unemployment, education, incarceration, hiv, housing, discrimiation taken care of. But we suppose to join in arms with people that dont give a dam about me you or anyone else in our community. They simply are taking advantage of a situation for their own benifit, and you want us to help them.
|
|||
|
|
Founder |
|