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A1 |
 ER, we are friends  ..., but seriousely, what 'new jack' leadership are you talkin' about that acts in the manner you have described?Like I stated earlier... Maybe I'm in somewhat of a bubble... Who are these young people(particularly in the activist community) that are 'waiting around' for what amounts to validation? I do see the masses of young people, the directionless and non active, waiting to be instructed on what to do. But that is an organizer's and mobalizer's job(reguardless of age) to 'wring them in'. But with the orgs. that Rowe mentioned alone, and in everyday life in the graassroots orgs., I see many 'young people' stepping up to the plate, they just don't get media coverage... Seriousely, I see 2 distinct groups, the active folk and the non-active folk. I think these two groups are getting confused via the fact they belong to the same post civil rights generation(my take on the distinction between 'new' and 'old' jacks). Egungun, Egungun ni t'aiye ati jo! Ancestos, Ancestors come to earth and dance! "I'm sick of the war and the civilization that created it. Let's look to our dreams, and the magical; to the creations of the so-called primitive peoples for new inspirations." - Jaques Vache and Andre Breton "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." -John Maynard "You know that in our country there were even matriarchal societies where women were the most important element. On the Bijagos islands they had queens. They were not queens because they were the daughters of kings. They had queens succeeding queens. The religious leaders were women too..." -- Amilcar Cabral, Return to the Source, 1973    |
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Tasmanian Angel |
LOL ... that's really funny you should say that, Sista Koco!
 The other day I'm going around the house cleaning and listening to and singing "Harvest For The World" by the Isley Bros. Out of nowhere the thought comes to me, "When will there be a harvest?  When we get those damn *White* growth-inhibiting weeds the hell out of our garden!  BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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Tasmanian Angel |
I'm sorry, OA .. but, I'm just not understanding your question here. Briefly, what I am saying is that there are young people who are actively involved in various organizations and whatnot who actively and consciously seek to gain the knowledge of how to pursue the path to progress. And then there are the "masses" ... general population of young folk who live in a mindset where it is more desireable to perpetuate the negative and detrimental aspects of Black social life, and do not, with conscious effort try to learn or understand any other way. I see these as two separate groups, because those that I see seeking the 'front line' of the battle are usually involved in positive youth groups, getting their education, promoting positive imagery and behavior from themselves and their peers. I see them at conferences where the young and the old gather and discuss and communicate .. and they stop, look, listen and learn. While those without the mindset to move to a more progressive state are walking around prideful of showing their underwear in public and portraying the image of being a pimp, a thug, a bitch or a ho. They say they see a problem but are not willing to exam viable ways to overcome them, believing instead that they way is the only way. It's rare (if not non-existant) that the same young woman who proudly asks to be recognized as somebody's "bitch" will be the same type of women who will stand up for or even know the reason instead being seen as a viable, African-descended Queen and the right to be respected as such. And the brotha that wants to be a pimp has no idea of the real reason he stays in and out of jail and the effect that has on his leaving his 5 children without their father.  There's two mindsets ... and it's not a matter of "old school" and "new jack". It's a difference between being socially intellectually conscious of what's going on and actively and earnestly trying to find the best remedy for it and being ignorant of what's truly going on and instead either complaining or waiting around for somebody else to fix whats wrong. I believe the former are the future leaders ... and I hope it is the latter who will eventually allow themselves to be lead. Again, I'm not sure what you were asking me. But I hope that clears things up ... and, if not, I'm definitely willing to try again!  Just ask!
BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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A1 |
No, I'm not confusing them. When Don Imus presented an opportunity to rally around eradicating sexism and racism...where were the new jacks? When Martin Lee Anderson died at the hands of guards in a bootcamp...where were the new jacks? When NAACP needs new blood and new ideas to propel itself forward...where are the new jacks? When voter fraud disenfranchised black americans, and especially black males...where were the new jacks? When Darfur requires continuous pressure, agitation, and spotlight...where are the new jacks? When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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A1 |
Now how would you happen to know that the so called "new jacks" aren't involved in or concerned with these issues ... or with other equally important issues in their own back yards? Because you don't see them on TV? Sister negrospiritual, I find these questions to be unfair. Because quite frankly, what do you know about what any of us (old jack or new jack) are doing apart from the few high profile folks who make the news (e.g., Jesse and Al)? In fact, I could turn the question around (in almost all these instances) and ask where were the old jacks (apart from Jesse or Al)? Lastly, but perhaps most importantly, why do your criteria for leadership qualifications seem to involve only high profile situations? Given the issues we discuss most frequently, I would think it most important to be involved on the local level. But how is one to get established even locally if the first qualification is being seen on TV?
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A1 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Now how would you happen to know that the so called "new jacks" aren't involved in or concerned with these issues ... or with other equally important issues in their own back yards? The same way you "know" that old jacks aren't making room or changing, or doing godknowswhat, for new jacks...based on personal observation. Because you don't see them on TV? That's really quite condescending, like you say old jacks are. I was going to ask you that very question. What makes you think the "old jacks" aren't encouraging the "New Jacks"? Just because you don't often see it in the media? Is praise and adoration for individuals what New Jacks (myself included) are seeking instead of focusing on doing the background work for the greater good? Are new jacks mad because the old jacks are in the way of fame and notoriety (ie face time on tv)? I decided not to ask the question because I didn't want to patronize an obviously intelligent brotha... Sister negrospiritual, I find these questions to be unfair. Please see above comments and old jack poet, Langston Hughes, because life for me ain't been no crystal stair... Because quite frankly, what do you know about what any of us (old jack or new jack) are doing apart from the few high profile folks who make the news (e.g., Jesse and Al)? Precisely! What do you know beyond your personal anecdotal experience? There are people seeking, and there are people mentoring, but as Oshun Auset suggests, it needs some organizing. Plus, we don't have a Black CNN repeating our news, our interests, our values 24/7 to make it all stick together. Lastly, but perhaps most importantly, why do your criteria for leadership qualifications seem to involve only high profile situations? Why do you display a knee-jerk reaction against the so-called "high profile" and against anything that doesn't coddle the so-called "new jacks" in their middle class look-at-me i need to be the center of attention because I've got a MBA, J.D or Ph.D and I know everything attitudes? Please copy and paste where I've actually listed any criteria for leadership qualifications. Anybody can serve. Anybody can lead. What I have done is repeat my belief that young people are the heart and soul of any movement by emphasizing the age of so-called "high profiles" when they did their greatest works. (Hint: YOUNG) The fact that the high profiles I mentioned were southern, northern, caribbean and african should have underscored the universality of the "youth as heart and soul" phenomenon. At the risk of bringing up more TV examples, the monks standing up to the military in Myanmar are youthful, The lawyers standing up to Musharref in Pakistan are new jack, the majority of audience members mesmerized at any Chavez speech appear to be young, and those who lost their lives in Tianamen Square were young. When the young want to move, they do so, they don't hurl invective at the old for being in the way. They corral the energy and they move! Even the Black Panthers were young people who organized and moved, based on a philosphy derived from the prior generation! What precisely are the so-called New Jacks waiting for? Given the issues we discuss most frequently, I would think it most important to be involved on the local level. But how is one to get established even locally if the first qualification is being seen on TV? *eww this stinks!* Because it's full of ship and it presumes... NOBODY, and I REPEAT NOBODY in this post is advocating tv facetime as a requirement for leadership. Me? I'm a behind the scenes person and I don't need people patting me on the back or placing a mike in my face or videotaping me. I just do what I do, and If I can't do it, I find some people who can. and If I don't know some people, I ask somebody. Sorry if I seem redundant, but, I just think that the Old/New Jack division is artificial and unnecessary. We all have work to do.
When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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A1 |
OK, being 50 years old, I'm curious. Just what are these new-fangled tactics that you describe as "40 year old" tactics? Are we actually talking about tactics that were invented within my own lifetime? What are they? Why have I not heard of them before? I tend to think of most tactics (except for those which presuppose certain aspects of modern technological advances that have actually arison within my own lifetime) as rather age-old tactics just waiting for new life to be breathed into them in new situations, contexts and struggles.
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A1 |
You really should have directed these remarks at the "old jack" who wrote the commentary which begins this thread. If you read what is there, he seems to rely heavily on television and other mass media imagery/paradigms to carry his argument. Then goes on to ask questions like, "Well if Oprah can do it then ...?" I will simply ask him what he's done to earn the right to question the commitment not only of Glaude but of "all those who think/feel similarly"? People who apparently he knows little about? What has he done to earn the right to conclude that they offer no "alternatives" if he is not engaged in ongoing dialogue with them?
And that's not condescending? And a whole helluva lot of presumptuous? Speaking for myself, I really don't need to be the "center of attention". I'm fairly camera-shy. * I DO need a basic system of support. * (This simple observation forms the basis of my position on the matter) I'm quite happy being literally and metaphorically "behind the camera". I only care for results. Which is why I'm usually the one pushed into the position of chairing committees. And I will repeat: I did not introduce the terms "new jack" and "old jack" into the thread. Someone else did. I'd appreciate if you'd stop holding me responsible for it. I have more than once conceded that the distinction is artificial.
With all due respect, I know enough to know that I'm sickened and disgusted by what I've seen and experienced. When it comes to decisions I make that impact my well-being, that's all I really need to know ... unless you have something to tell me RIGHT NOW that I did not already know and that will make a difference to me. I also know that I'm at my personal wit's end as to what to do about any of it. And that's for real.
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Tasmanian Angel |
Two things .... First of all, I think your idea was awesome!   And all things considered, I would call it a glaring success. Obviously, the "powers that be" that you speak of thought so too or else they wouldn't have stolen your idea and kicked you out of the loop! And while I can definitely agree they should have treated you better, to be mimicked should considered for the high form of flattery that it is.No. 2 ... You live in Kentucky.  So I gotta ask ... Are the majority of "elders" that you talk about interacting and communicating with whom you consider ill-informed, out of touch and generally "suck" Kentuckians?? And if so, are you judging the generational elders by as a whole by the Kentucky standard of wisdom? Just curious. BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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A1 |
Thanks. I appreciate that.
Kentucky is strange. It is the ultimate "old boy's club". It might surprise some that I have made efforts to form alliances here. In fact, much of my opinion is based on information supplied by so-called "old jacks". My observations are not merely personal. I've talked with enough people here in major positions (old and new jack) to conclude that there is something profoundly wrong in this state. It is socially in a state of paralysis - at least in regards to black life. Others agree. Organizing anything in this place is hell. Many have tried (over periods of years) and either failed or achieved minimal results. It's like pissing in the wind. Especially if you're not a native or hooked up in a church (speaking of obstructionist old jack institutions). I.e., if you don't have a basic support system or a strong personal reason to stay involved, at some point the only reasonable conclusion is to leave. Many have made that choice. As I am currently doing myself. So yes. My views are based largely on life in Kentucky. Perhaps I could do more. I'm not perfect. But I've done enough to earn my opinion ... and I also wonder if Kentucky can really be that much different from a lot of other places in the country. OK. Henceforth, I will stop using the terms "old jack" and "new jack". Promise.
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Tasmanian Angel |
Okay ... two more things. First of all, I've no doubt you've *earned* your opinion ... especially if you've been trying to deal in intelligent ways with those people there. And I wouldn't discourage you trying to do more ... however, you never quite struck me as the type of person with a "martyr" complex .. so, I would suggest you proceed with caution ... and realize you are doing so at your own risk!  Secondly, yes, a place like Kentucky can really be that much different from a lot of other places, and I'll tell you why! It's because of the mindset in places like that. While Kentucky is considered 'the south' by some, it's still closer to middle America. And while Kentucky (and surrounding states) certainly had it's civil rights issues, the biting dogs, the waterhoses, the Black Panther party marching the streets ... those kinds of things happened elsewhere and so the whole CRM experience would be different where you are from what it is where I am. While Texes is considered part of the deep South ... these people didn't fight here at all!! Kentucky probably had more CRM activity than what actually happened here. But, that is to say, the mentality here (and what you would get out of these "elders"!) is different than it is there, or in Alabama, or in California, or in New York. So, maybe it's not that all of us *old folk* are misguided. Maybe you're just talking/communicating/learning from the wrong ones. BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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A1 |
Now that I think about, an example which comes to mind is the Ali Center here. It was founded by no less a figure than Muhammad Ali (who is a native). It's opening a few years ago was attended by a lot of big name celebrity. Ali envisioned an organization that would serve as an international center for conflict resolution (involved in issues like Darfur and Rwanda). But a friend who works there tells me that the organization is failing .... in large part because it lacks community backing and the "powers that be" are lacking in vision. Or maybe more properly speaking they have an agenda that differs from Ali's.
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A1 |
Speaking of Langston Hughes ... Maybe this http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/79160213/m...841096944#2841096944 will help to provide some * black history * context ...  |
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A1 |
 none for me thanks, I wouldn't wanna abuse the black history. I'm going cold turkey...When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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A1 |
C'mon ... you know you want to jump into the Rabbit Hole  |
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A1 |
Lastly, let's address a problem that is among the root problems when we talk about * high incarceration rates *: too many young people have inadequate educational preparation. And consequently many of them lack the skills to successfully compete in the workforce. Failure to complete math credits is one of the leading reasons that college students don't receive their degrees. Math credits are necessary for a wide range of degree programs. Everything from most engineering and science programs to business, economics, and medicine. This disproportionately impacts African-Americans. There are a number of interlocking factors beginning at the primary and secondary level which affect student performance and which impact their competitiveness in higher education and beyond. There are literally tons of studies and much that has been written on the subject. To cite a few:
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