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Phoenix Rising |
No... The internal effects of colorism are very much alive and well and visible in the revolutionary movements... This will seem contradictory to you unless you live it.. but when I went to college it at first seemed like heaven.. I had every black man calling me "Queen" and pretty much falling over themselves to be with me BECAUSE I am dark.. (after coming from being raised in the South where there was no shortage of anyone pointing out how dark I am).... however, even in this climate the MOST COVETED woman was light skinned... their uniqueness even more enhanced because not only were they beautiful but were "down" for the cause... and pumping your fist in the air and saying "Allahuakbar" does not ensure that you cease loving light skinned women or white women... you still saw it and feel it around you... and it is worst because you begin to feel like brothers are paying attention to you because they have been RETRAINED to ... like robots rather than what you see them genuinely desire... A running joke even highlighted on In Living Color was the revolutionary at home with his white girlfriend .... perhaps the white girlfriend is an anomaly in the NOI (I've never seen it)... one we don't date... and two the brother would be ostracized.. Peace, Khalliqa "The Goddess emerges as the evanescence of the inferior dissipates.... " |
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A2 |
Well I guess revolutionary movements are about retraining of a sort. But I do get what you mean, you do want it to be an organic admiration and not one manufactured for anyone's benefit.
The thing with the NOI is that so much of the leadership from Fard through Louis, is bright than a mofo, talk about a phenotype.
can you see that happening? Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years |
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A1 |
Don't even get me started... I can honestly say that not just in the 'dating/attraction' arena it is one of the crippling issue in revolutionary movements. I've had to purposely 'give the floor' to sisters that are darker than me who I knew had the same or better intellect/consciousness about certain issues because they would get 'passed over' when it was time to get someone to do a presentation. I've had to re-intriduce colourism as an issue, after darker sisters bring it up and get called 'divisive' ect. for bringing up their experiences dealing with it. That one really pisses me off... One sister almost got her head bit off when she mentioned the Rosa Parks issue that you brought up earlier... I had to get all ig'nant waving me hands and saying "Hey, hey, wait a minute!" to stop the attack dogs and defend her statement as 'accurate'. Interestingly, it's always a brother that attempts to shut the darker sisters down, the light skinned people in the room avoid the subject like the plague, but never are 'bold' enough to actually attempt to 'shut the convo down'. It can get really disheartenning to constantly see this happenning. I personally try to stay in the background and just be a worker unless I'm absolutely sure there is a piece of info/subject that I know I'm more informed about and must discuss/present.
I've seen couch revolutionaries(and my pet peeve...Rastas) do this, but never any militants in organizations. They would be laughed out of the room... But I've seen many a brother(and sister) almost break their neck to romantically pursue folks of lighter hues that weren't even on a particularly impressive level character/consciousness wise, particularly 'down here'... I even had one brother(a 5%) tell me I was 'the best of both worlds'...  I had to clown him by asking him a few very uncomfortable(for him to answer) questions...
Egungun, Egungun ni t'aiye ati jo! Ancestos, Ancestors come to earth and dance! "I'm sick of the war and the civilization that created it. Let's look to our dreams, and the magical; to the creations of the so-called primitive peoples for new inspirations." - Jaques Vache and Andre Breton "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." -John Maynard "You know that in our country there were even matriarchal societies where women were the most important element. On the Bijagos islands they had queens. They were not queens because they were the daughters of kings. They had queens succeeding queens. The religious leaders were women too..." -- Amilcar Cabral, Return to the Source, 1973    |
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A1 |
If enforced as a part of an Intra-African form of affirmative action... Which any militant organization that professes trying to rid itself and our people of colurism, gender, and class oppression should have as part of their ideology. Maybe after a certain amount of ideological re-training it would become habit, second nature, an then organic inside the org... But I don't see it being voluntarilly done in mass by the lighter people at this point. ALthough if folks claim to be against colourism, they should do it voluntarily. Egungun, Egungun ni t'aiye ati jo! Ancestos, Ancestors come to earth and dance! "I'm sick of the war and the civilization that created it. Let's look to our dreams, and the magical; to the creations of the so-called primitive peoples for new inspirations." - Jaques Vache and Andre Breton "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." -John Maynard "You know that in our country there were even matriarchal societies where women were the most important element. On the Bijagos islands they had queens. They were not queens because they were the daughters of kings. They had queens succeeding queens. The religious leaders were women too..." -- Amilcar Cabral, Return to the Source, 1973 |
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Phoenix Rising |
 I should have highlighted that I have never seen one in the group I was in prior to NOI either... However,
I see this all day long...
See.. The thing is to point out someone's privilege does not mean you believe they do not deserve ANY recognition... I HATE to say this but the real truth is my best friend is light bright (and Christian but that's another topic lol)... She is exquisitely and elegantly beautiful.. her skin is flawless and her wavy hair is silky, healthy and gawgeous... When I a darkskinned kinky haired sister say Hey why is my dark skin and kinky hair looked at as INHERENTLYugly compared to her... that is not a put down of her beauty, it is a got damn question that deserves answering... why is a dark skinned sisters azz the only thing on her that gets inherent recognition???? this is NOT lost on us... it would be different if in our community there were certain TYPES of dark skinned kinky haired women that were seen as attractive or unnattractive... like we have some crazy non symmetrical features or something.. or are mentally retarded.... but that's not the case.. as a group we're just ugly until we get a perm... until the dude realizes he can't get play with someone else... until he gets reprogrammed... until he spends and insane amount of time with her til the point her personality OVERCOMES her physical characteristics... etc... It is taboo to bring up the bias... I told the story once and will say it again... As a young girl I was thought of as an "acceptable" dark skinned sister because my perm "took" right and I had loooong hair and a "cute" (read close to euro featured face)... when I went natural, every black woman told me well "you" can do that.. WHY???? It's my daggone hair it looks JUST LIKE YOURS.. except it's not covered up with chemicals... lol... no one tells a white woman.. well YOU can wear your hair straight, wavy etc... lol... I had a guy tell me in middle school "Sis. K you're pretty but you're just so damn black"... this type of incident IS NOT rare in my life... When I get compliments they are of the ilk: "You're pretty to be black" "You look like you're from Ethiopia" as if I have somehow overcome my color and kinky hair... when light skinned sisters get rejected by women who are considered UGLY in the community and holler reverse colorism that's some dumb ish.. "redbone" does NOT have the same negative connotation in our community as "darkie" or "nappy" the latter meaning "do something about that"... the former meaning "you're priviliged or stuck up"... Brothers defend this "JLO is a black woman ish" because they're defending their idolized beauty.. she they "boo"... the light skinned woman's (or white woman's) beauty is to be protected... the black woman better stop being angry and get her ish together like all of the other fawned over women that she is NOT... negro pointing out "exotic" flavor of the day for cracka models... gawd.. whaeva... Peace, Khalliqa "The Goddess emerges as the evanescence of the inferior dissipates.... " |
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A2 |
East African women look very different from West African women, I tend to favor the West African phenotype. I guess it is a secret, but dark skinned women have more than boo-d (not that boo-d ain't enough), they have the natually softest skin on the planet, it is like whipped chocolate (if you will), their skin is so soft, you think it is just going to fall off the bone. Who has better lips?
degrees of attractiveness are not based solely on euro features. A small nose is cute on anyone. But it is also nice if your features fit your face. Lips too thin or too thick will be unattractive on anyone. Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years |
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A1 |
And that's the 'fine line' of rational thinking that get's so lost when most people discuss colourism. People some how think that pointing out the disproportionate amount of 'recognition' light folks get in our community due to the reality of colurism is some how a plee to 'ignore' folk... Which is a reactionary and illgoical leap/ass-umption to make..
I remember someone in denial about colourism once said to me. "You don't get attention cuz you are light, you get it cuz you are pretty". I had to explain that the amount I get 'down here' in comparrison with California alone is DEFINITELY evidence that 'that ain't it'. The amount of attention 'not ver attractive' light folk get is evidence to the contrary.
Yup, and addressed as a social issue to be rectified.
Good question...
And that's the treatment I can empathize/sympathize with but can never 'feel', because it just isn't my reality. But it pains me that it is the reality for the darker sister(read MAJORITY).
I think that it is largely because nowadays colourism is largely mixed with gender oppression/ female objectification. Men don't suffer from it's effects 'as much'. I find I get similar knee jerk defensiveness when bringing up the patriarchal aspect of it all, or patriarchy in general. It's like a 1-2 punch.
You sound like my homegirl... The one who I mentioned went through 'the transition'. My other favorite comment she gets from people who knew her before she went natural is "Why did you do that(cut her perm off)? You had a good grade of hair!" 
Ain't that the truth. I like when people openly akcnowledge how things 'work' like this though(although it's sad they have internalized it). They are basically saying... "Your phenotype isn't 'that' Bantu... so if you have 'naturally kinky hair' You still got one up(phenotype)under the Euro beauty standard) on those who don't, and therefore wouldn't have any 'desirable' physical qualities as far as the Euro beauty standard is concerned." I even have people ask me why I don't straighten my hair... And outright tell me that I 'should' because it would be 'long, straight, and prettier.  I just respond with... "My hair isn't European/white looking enough for yah huh?"... Like I said, I'm getting old and tired.
I've heard people say that to friends, and about others quite a bit.
Damn, you sound like my friend.
Beyond dumb... Translation "I don't want to loose the unfair privilege with men based on my phenotype/colour under internalized patriarchal white supremacy."
I thought red and yellow were my name for a while...lol. I didn't know it had the 'stuck up' connotation... I thought it was primarily a colour refference. 
J-Lo sure don't think she is an African/Black... Yah, she probably has some genetics going on... but she doesn't self identify as an Afro-Puerto Rican... and wouldn't 'qualify' as one under the colour/phenotype construct of Puerto Rico either. I'm tired of people trying to bring people into the fold who don't want to be in it, and have questionable ancestry in the first place. There are enough sisters with a far better booty, no need to fawn over J-Lo. The ridiculous amount of drooling over J-Lo that happenned for a while was so obviousely a coulorist/phenotype issue it made me a little sick that people were so comfortable doing it. Egungun, Egungun ni t'aiye ati jo! Ancestos, Ancestors come to earth and dance! "I'm sick of the war and the civilization that created it. Let's look to our dreams, and the magical; to the creations of the so-called primitive peoples for new inspirations." - Jaques Vache and Andre Breton "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." -John Maynard "You know that in our country there were even matriarchal societies where women were the most important element. On the Bijagos islands they had queens. They were not queens because they were the daughters of kings. They had queens succeeding queens. The religious leaders were women too..." -- Amilcar Cabral, Return to the Source, 1973 |
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Phoenix Rising |
My beef with this is not even what she calls herself it's the reason why brothers go after her in the first place... My mentioning her was not an attempt to selectively determine who is black or not.. it was to say that in their attempt to idolize a woman brothers go for "mixed" women all of the time! Brothers DO NOT fall over themselves to idolize women that look like her:  unless it's for the above mentioned reasons... especially if he has been reprogrammed into forcing himself off some GREATER familial principle to even look at her... "We must support the black family, whelp gotta do that with the blackest sister available... hmmm.. now where do I find one of those"... it's scientific strategy... whereas Jlo walks into a Black Panther Meeting no one has to theorize her worth.. she's just wanted... because she's the ideal... Not to mention Alek's "beauty" is seen as "artistic" not as earthly alluring... just "exotic" and "new"... not feminine or inherently attractive "type"... someone a man would "DO" because she's female and marketed... No other people REJECT the women of the SAME phenotype! lol... Our people have been doing it for years... if we did not go through a period where we were FORCED to hate ourselves and idealize white folx, our psyches would be different and diversity would MEAN something... now its just a manifestation of programming... The reconstruction of our thinking was done so well you've got negroes "perplexed" that colorism exists at all....! Peace, Khalliqa "The Goddess emerges as the evanescence of the inferior dissipates.... " |
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Vanguard |
Thought provoking statement... Ubuntu - I am what I am, because of who we all are. "Peace is not merely the absence of tension, it is the presence of justice." - MLK www.PersonalSafetyInstitute.org |
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A1 |
This is sad(and must be annoying) but true... Do you think at a point in the future the reprogramming can/could become second nature, and therefore become as close a proximity to organic as possible?
Sounds like how white folks used to openly objectify African/Black women...
That line sums it up quite nicely...
Yup... Egungun, Egungun ni t'aiye ati jo! Ancestos, Ancestors come to earth and dance! "I'm sick of the war and the civilization that created it. Let's look to our dreams, and the magical; to the creations of the so-called primitive peoples for new inspirations." - Jaques Vache and Andre Breton "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." -John Maynard "You know that in our country there were even matriarchal societies where women were the most important element. On the Bijagos islands they had queens. They were not queens because they were the daughters of kings. They had queens succeeding queens. The religious leaders were women too..." -- Amilcar Cabral, Return to the Source, 1973 |
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A2 |
I saw a online discussion going regarding Garcelle Beauvais-Nilon and her "white" twins on the March 31, 2008 cover of Jet Magazine.
 All this talk of colorism and intra-racial strife got me thinking about a documentary I saw years ago called A Question of Color: A Question of Color is the first documentary to confront a painful and long taboo subject: the disturbing feelings many African Americans harbor about themselves and their appearance. African American filmmaker Kathe Sandler digs into the often subconscious world of "color consciousness," a caste system based on how closely skin color, hair texture and facial features conform to a European ideal. A Question of Color traces "colorism" back to the sexual subjugation of black women by slave owners and the preferential treatment their mixed-race children received. The film is especially sensitive to the burdens borne by black women who often feel devalued by white standards of beauty. Disturbing scenes with teen-age rappers, a Harlem plastic surgeon, a television news anchor and a writer indicate the color problem is still very much with us, affecting employment, friendship and marriage. This unusually sensitive film can help viewers examine the complex interplay between racial identity, culture and self-image in society and within themselves. I would love to see this one again. At the time, I'm sure I recorded it, but I don't know if I still have it on VHS. *********************************** “It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have.†-- James Baldwin |
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A1 |
 Never seen it. Gotta get it...Egungun, Egungun ni t'aiye ati jo! Ancestos, Ancestors come to earth and dance! "I'm sick of the war and the civilization that created it. Let's look to our dreams, and the magical; to the creations of the so-called primitive peoples for new inspirations." - Jaques Vache and Andre Breton "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." -John Maynard "You know that in our country there were even matriarchal societies where women were the most important element. On the Bijagos islands they had queens. They were not queens because they were the daughters of kings. They had queens succeeding queens. The religious leaders were women too..." -- Amilcar Cabral, Return to the Source, 1973 |
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A2 |
I'm sorry Alek Wek is not pretty to me at all. I totally do not get that. It could be the hair or lack of it, but I do not think that it is. I do not really like her eyes, they look masculine to me.
Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years |
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A2 |
Gabrielle with them white babies ia gross.
Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years |
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