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Phoenix Rising
Picture of Khalliqa
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quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Free.


Exactly...

appl


Peace,
Khalliqa

"The Goddess emerges as the evanescence of the inferior dissipates.... "
 
Posts: 6558 | Registered: April 09, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
A1
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiz:
It is not hardly a false construct, it is capitalism. You are either an exploiter or you are exploited, if you are lucky you can be exploited, exploiting others (It is called an MBA). Capitalism exploits everything, that is what it does. If you are to be successful, then you must learn to own slaves (exploit labor) or learn to slave well. So unless you have some other construct to offer that defines capitalism as something else, then you have no cause to reject it.



So then this post is about CAPITALISM and not what the black community is to become? and your options for what the black community is to become is only framed within the construct of capitalism/slave/slavowner?

that's both limited and false constructs

but an interesting post nevertheless 5





When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak

Audre Lord
 
Posts: 7491 | Registered: August 11, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Wiz
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quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Free.

Free? Compared to what? How would we be different than we are now. Specifically speaking, that is. Free in and of itself means too much to mean anything at all.


Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years
 
Posts: 1716 | Registered: November 09, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Wiz
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quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:

So then this post is about CAPITALISM and not what the black community is to become? and your options for what the black community is to become is only framed within the construct of capitalism/slave/slavowner?

that's both limited and false constructs

but an interesting post nevertheless 5
Well no one has come up with succeeding outside of capitalism, so I can only conclude that success (as mentioned pretty much everywhere it is mentioned) is inside of capitalism (or come up with something else). I have not once seen someone say: this is how we can not be capitalists. To the contrary, I keep hearing things like education, entrepreneurialism, home ownership, investing, and all sorts of other things to generate wealth. So then since nothing else is offered, the choice is between slave and slave owner. What will you choose?


Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years
 
Posts: 1716 | Registered: November 09, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Phoenix Rising
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When has capitalism been practiced without the use of subversive military tactics?


Peace,
Khalliqa

"The Goddess emerges as the evanescence of the inferior dissipates.... "
 
Posts: 6558 | Registered: April 09, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Wiz
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I have no idea and as far as this query goes, it does not matter. The question is, since there are only two identities in the capitalist paradigm (And that is pair-a-dig'em) the exploiter (slave owner) and the exploited (slave) which will we be to when we are 'successful'?


Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years
 
Posts: 1716 | Registered: November 09, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
A1
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capitalism is an economic system that operates within a political system. slave and slaveowner are not the only considerations.....





When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak

Audre Lord
 
Posts: 7491 | Registered: August 11, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Wiz
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Not until you can specify what they are that they are not slave and slaveowner, they do not exist.

It seems kinda unfair for you to keep saying that I am wrong or false but you will not correct me, other than to tell me that I am wrong again.

If there is some aspect of capitalism, as practiced here in america, that can not be considered slave or slaveowner, what is it? Sharecropper (Ha! that was Enron)? Should we aspire to become sharecroppers?


Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years
 
Posts: 1716 | Registered: November 09, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
D3
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Posts: 93 | Registered: November 15, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Wiz
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Careful analysis of Black institutions that uphold mis-education and Africans who have been crippled by it reveal a number of highly identifiable features. First, these institutions will favor and their patrons will embrace what psychologist Wade Nobles (1986) calls conceptual incarceration. Conceptual incarceration is the term for Black imprisonment in White belief systems and knowledge bases.

When it comes to defining themselves and the world, mis-educated Blacks restrict their range of thought (and action) by their habit of drawing exclusively from their European background. By limiting themselves to this one, small facet of their vast, tricultural heritage, they confine themselves to a tiny, narrow corner of the world where they sit locked in a mental prison (colony) with only one set of lenses (European) to see the world.
I got that just from skimming, I would like to see shit like that broken down so that children can understand it and adults have no reason not to.


Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years
 
Posts: 1716 | Registered: November 09, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Wiz
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quote:
Originally posted by Ifaleye:
http://www.allgambian.net/commentary_181.htm
Thank you. It is a small comfort to know that I am not alone in trying to understand this struggle.


Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years
 
Posts: 1716 | Registered: November 09, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
A1
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiz:
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:

So then this post is about CAPITALISM and not what the black community is to become? and your options for what the black community is to become is only framed within the construct of capitalism/slave/slavowner?

that's both limited and false constructs

but an interesting post nevertheless 5
Well no one has come up with succeeding outside of capitalism,


That's not true...

quote:
I have not once seen someone say: this is how we can not be capitalists. To the contrary, I keep hearing things like education, entrepreneurialism, home ownership, investing, and all sorts of other things to generate wealth.


That's also not true, unless you are specifically and only speaking of this thread.

BTW Fagunwa mentioned 'free', that would mean 'not exploited' and 'not oppressed'...

I think the problem with this thread is that your initial post was vague, and didn't specify that you were looking for a political/economic answer. Many people on the board think in a holistic sense. Hence the responses you recieved.


Egungun, Egungun ni t'aiye ati jo!
Ancestos, Ancestors come to earth and dance!


"I'm sick of the war and the civilization that created it. Let's look to our dreams, and the magical; to the creations of the so-called primitive peoples for new inspirations."
- Jaques Vache and Andre Breton

"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone."
-John Maynard

"You know that in our country there were even matriarchal societies where women were the most important element. On the Bijagos islands they had queens. They were not queens because they were the daughters of kings. They had queens succeeding queens. The religious leaders were women too..."
-- Amilcar Cabral, Return to the Source, 1973




 
Posts: 6232 | Registered: July 22, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Wiz
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I will admit that the initial post was vague, as were some of the proceeding posts as well. And while I was speaking specifically of this thread, I have seen little if anything outside of it regarding not succeeding as capitalist as well.

As for free, it is kind of meaningless sitting by itself. You are telling me that it 'could' mean something, but it just as easily 'could' mean something else. Even moreso, the electricity is 'free' in the water, but it is also pretty useless there.

Even in the most holistic sense, one word is not able to capture goals and designs to any useful degree.


Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years
 
Posts: 1716 | Registered: November 09, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
B5
Picture of Fagunwa
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quote:
Originally posted by kresge:
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Free.
off
Hey Fagunwa!!!
Long time no see. Are you hanging around for awhile or just passing through?


Bro Kresge!
I am back for a good little while.


The cat has arrived, rats disappear.

Yoruba proverb.
 
Posts: 781 | Registered: January 02, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
B5
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Freedom is the goal. You are free to interpret that as you wish, but "electricity in the water" is not free, it is captured in an environment that cannot promote it's useful growth as you said. Free Africans on the other hand, founded an occult science so deep that your oppressor uses a bastardized version of it to control you to this day.


The cat has arrived, rats disappear.

Yoruba proverb.
 
Posts: 781 | Registered: January 02, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Wiz
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So then what? Freedom is one thing between two (at least) others, as in: you are free to roam, you do not have to stay. Freedom is not a goal, it is a transition point. If you transit to nothing, then what is the point. Freedom is only a reaction to not being free. Is this a mystery or a riddle or something? If we were free, how would that change you life or mine? Free from what to what? Yes it sounds cool, but then so does whistling, but what is the point?


Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years
 
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Phoenix Rising
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just arguing to be arguing...


Peace,
Khalliqa

"The Goddess emerges as the evanescence of the inferior dissipates.... "
 
Posts: 6558 | Registered: April 09, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Wiz
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No I am not arguing just to be arguing. I just want to hear something specific, something measurable. ONe of the great biblical quotes, My people perish for the lack of vision.

So if you are not able to see (visualize) to as great a degree as possible, a future that you want for your people, then what is the point of all this? On of the greatest lessons in history is the birth of the United States. They had a plan for after the revolution. So they were able to at least build on something. We have no plan for after the revolution, and you know what that has led to historically? Usually another revolution, dictatorship and all other sorts of BS.

So what happens after we are free? I guess more importantly at this point is why fight over the idea of even having a vision at all?


Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years
 
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B5
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Wiz
At this point in my life I don't waste time because at my age time is very precious to me. The dog who chases his tail will get dizzy. Good luck on your journey.


The cat has arrived, rats disappear.

Yoruba proverb.
 
Posts: 781 | Registered: January 02, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Wiz
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If you had not intent on explaining what you were talking about, then why did you say anything at all? Free in and of itself is meaningless. How is it that no one has any vision that they can relate to anyone else? No code words, no ancient sayings, no mysticism, just describe the society that you would want to see. If that is a waste of your time, then you are right to move on.

If you don't know where you are going, how will you know when you get there?


Knocking jockeys off the lawn for over 50 years
 
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