THANK YOU NMAGINATE! And he claimed that I didn't read!

No offense yssys, but I think the last two posts are a pretty good indicator of your level of readership. That wasn't an intelligent contribution from a reader, that was childish.

Anyone disagree?

quote:

---

Originally posted by sergeant:
What was the percentage of those whites vs blacks that had finished high school?

What did the average work histories of the white applicants look like compared to the work histories of the black applicants?

Were the crimes committed simular? How did they dress for the interviews? Could they speak english well?

One cannot simply make a comparison study, but then disqualify the majority of factors involved in hiring.
The so-called study itself includes the disclaimer:
_"..in the absence of other disqualifying characteristics_"

The logic of drawing conclusions from these numbers, without knowing any of the other disqualifying factors, would be akin to a baseball manager saying "Hey, we hired Taylor to be on our baseball team, he's a great fielder, but we have no idea how he bats." The team and fans would want to KNOW how he can bat before having him join.

You can't leave out the most significant data involved in hiring for jobs and say that only a single factor of appearance MUST be indicative of x y or z.

---

quote:

---

And what were they applying for, and where were those positions? What were the jobs applied for? What part of the nation? White employers, or black employers, or what ratio of each? How'd they dress? What were the 'acting' abilities of each group, was their ability to act 'enthusiastic' or 'honest' or 'trustworthy' or 'serious', EXACTLY identical or were these people beyond all else still 'individuals'? Was anyone uglier or prettier than the rest?

4 applicants??? What a brilliant study that must have been. Sure can base blanket conclusions on that one, eh.

---

Sarge,

Before you make a fool of yourself any further, you might want to do one of two things.

(1) Read the actual study itself

http://www.northwestern.edu/ipr/publications/papers/2002/WP-02-37.pdf

(2) Read through the following thread, and watch Myrllyn make a fool of himself, just as you are trying to do.

http://pub45.ezboard.com/fnfisgetoutthevotefrm3.showMessageRange?topicID=1132.topic&start=1&stop=20

If, after completing either of these tasks, you still want any of these questions answered, I'll be happy to show you what a fool you are. Just ask, OK?

Illegal, noun: A term used by the descendents of European Immigrants to refer to descendants of Native Americans Plowshares Actions The Nuclear Resister School of the Americas Watch

Cauca, Colombia

Actually I have heard of the study previously, not the one with only 4 participants, but the aforementioned one. And I asked the same exact questions.

In addition, I have been involved in studies, as many folks are, and I know how they tick. And the one in question was performed by 'students' of all people, hardly a mantlepiece of objective or mature critical analysis.

So, to save everybody time, tell me why or how you believe I'm wrong SPECIFICALLY, if you feel that way. Does in fact the study document that they included the data related to the questions I asked? Or, is it that you don't feel my questions were relevant.

As an example, the study fails to document wholly whether those conducting the interviews were black or white. I think thats a relevant factor. Look around firms in NYC or Chicago, you are going to find a whole lot of black folks working in Human Resources depts. But the study doesn't detail that, and how can one make racial assumptions based on black folks not hiring black folks? Thats just one flaw I found.


Either way, you need actively participate, not just sit back feeling superiorily intelligent in front of negroes. You got something to say? Say it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by sergeant:
Actually I have heard of the study previously, not the one with only 4 participants, but the aforementioned one. And I asked the same exact questions.

---

The "aformentioned" study? Could you be a little more explicit? This thread was just revived by Lofton just a few posts above. I haven't reread all of the old posts in this thread, but so far as I recall, there has been only one study under discussion.

If I am misunderstand which study that you are referring to, then I apologise. But I would like to see a link to the study in question. In the context of this thread, having just been brought back to life, it did indeed apear to me that you were referring to the study in the initial post.

Illegal, noun: A term used by the descendents of European Immigrants to refer to descendants of Native Americans Plowshares Actions The Nuclear Resister School of the Americas Watch

Cauca, Colombia

"the study fails to document wholly whether those conducting the interviews were black or white. I think thats a relevant factor."

Why is that a relevant factor? Are you saying that a Black interviewer would not discriminate against someone of his/her own race?

sgt,

go read the glass ceiling comission's report done under the clinton administration with thousands......see if you can defend the position that endorses racist behavior with THAT study...it consisted of thousands qualified equally. From Rush on, you are truly the great defender of the other side......I call it living in deference to others......

VDiamond, you get it.

It has been long established that when provided with clear, though unwritten, corporate cultural directives, there are those Blacks in HR depts., that fall in lockstep with those that say, "we want people that can full integrate into our corporate culture"; meaning, "we want people just like the people we have historically hired." And, those have tended to be non-Black.

Some Blacks in HR, and other positions of influence, tend to act as gatekeepers, allowing only a few to pass.

Those gatekeepers that do the best (worst) at discriminating are the ones that parrot the colorblind, hardwork and perservance hooey.

quote:

---

Either way, "YOU" need actively participate {FOR and not AGAINST} and not just sit back feeling superiorily intelligent {simply because you wished you were} in front of your fellow HankerChief HEAD-negroes. You got something to say? Say it.

---

--->> Silly Rabbit !! (aka Sgt.) The Other WHITE Drink!

______________________________________________________________________
"The problem many African-Americans have with these [BLACK] "CONservatives" is that they appear to air the problems of the black community to the entire nation without offering any Real Solutions."

Hello sergeant,

"No offense yssys, but I think the last two posts are a pretty good indicator of your level of readership. That wasn't an intelligent contribution from a reader, that was childish.

Anyone disagree?"

Definitely not I. If I were you, I would not waste any more of your valuable time discussing this issue, because when the detractors can't come up with facts to dispute your contentions, they resort to personal attacks, absurdities, posting nonsense, etc.

________________________________________________

In Addition Numerous Untold Falsely Accused Black men and women rot in prison! If not for organizations such as Centurian Ministries, the Nation of Islam, the Conscienceness of Caucasian America, the will of the falsely accused to hold firm in their beliefs, the many Geronimo Pratts would be consumed by the prison environment! The pseudo civil rights organization in the NAACP could care less, because this organization has lost touch with the Black community! The so called legal community of Black America, prefer to bend over backwards to represent Corporate Caucasian America, illegal immigrants, and/or misfits, rather than step up to the plate to competently represent the truly law abiding of Black America.

The aforementioned studies of staging a criminal past to determine the disparity between Caucasians, and Black people, definitely does not impact the larger population of Black men and women, who are under lock down in a penal institution, to which in many cases, they would not be in such a position if they had just one opportunity to gainful employment, access to competent legal or political representation, etc.

Few if any, of the elected Black leadership, the so-called religious Black community, the so-called Black middle class, etc., are doing anything to make for prosperity in the Black community, and it shows.

Should any U.S. citizen of Black American heritage with a valid claim for redress for the wrongs of a government seriously gone awry, the typical Black elected leadership, in no good illegal immigrant serving foreign interests at the expense of law abiding U.S. citizens Assemblyman Merv Dymally, Los Angeles County Supervisor Yvonne "Brentwood Burke", no good carpetbagging caught with his pants down with a prostitute Assemblyman Kevin Murray, "Little Napoleon" Assemblyman Marc Ridley Thomas, Los Angeles City Councilman Bernard Parks, no good Congresswoman Diane Watson, etc., prefer to play games, practice nepotism, steal for personal gain, serve foreign interests, bend over backwards to serve outside special interest groups, serve illegal immigrants,etc., to which it is not surprising at all that the Black community remains at the back of the pack, at the bottom of the economic strata!
_________________________________________

In spite of their defeat, the Native American Indians, command respect through sacrifice, hard work, competent representation, ethnic sense, community support, and/or use of the tools to succeed in the United States. Far too Many Black people on the otherhand, prefer:

1. Drama.

2. Game playing, sleazy representation.

3. Welfare or handouts over free enterprise.

4. Expect others to do all the sacrificing while they sit on the sidelines to collect benefits on the backs of the sacrifices of others.

5. Give praise to illegal immigrants, while bannishing law abiding U.S. citizens of Black America heritage.

6. Make excuses for misfits, in our own disgraceful elected officials, preachers, etc.

7. Heading for the "Hills", Dreaming that They can be Caucasian, thinking that Caucasians are going to solve the many serious problems that negatively impact Black folk,....which exemplifies the typical sleazy Black middle class. Mind you Caucasian America's solutions to contain Black people are prison construction, increasing the size of the police force, community based policing...meaning getting Black people to snitch on each other in a community ripe for criminal activity as it relates to a community void of employment opportunities...which keeps virtually every other ethnic group but Black people gainfully employed. It is impossible to in the real have the largest prison population of any ethnic group, and at the same time be the most gainfully employed ethnic group in the U.S.


Tribes Buying Back Ancestral Lands

Indian bands statewide are using casino profits to purchase property near their reservations, sometimes reacquiring farmland or sacred sites.

By Louis Sahagun

Times Staff Writer

October 20, 2003

Maurice Lyons was a boy when white ranchers fenced a lush canyon in the heart of the Morongo Band of Mission Indians reservation to keep his people from sharing its game, pasturelands, wild grapes and sage.

"Back then, I hunted deer and rabbit in the canyon with a beat-up old single-shot .22 rifle," he recalled. "We didn't have anything else to live on in those days, so there were hard feelings about those fences."

Now, as chairman of one of the wealthiest casino-owning tribes in the state, Lyons is making a priority of buying back ancestral territory, starting with Millard Canyon, near Banning. It is part of an effort to consolidate the reservation — a checkerboard of desert parcels about 100 miles east of Los Angeles — and, even more important, fulfill a tribal longing to reclaim land that had been taken away.

Other casino-owning tribes up and down the state also are quietly buying property near their reservations as part of long-term economic development strategies, or merely to protect it from encroachment.

The advantages of owning a successful casino, tribal leaders say, are cultural as well as economic. In addition to paying for social services, infrastructure improvements, business investments and political donations, gambling operations help tribes reconnect to a fundamental aspect of their besieged past: land lost through tax sales, fraud and violence.

"It has long been an aspiration of tribes across America to reclaim their traditional lands in any way possible," said Victoria Bomberry, a professor of Native American studies at UC Riverside.

"During the early days of the Red Power movement in the 1960s, for example, tribal elders emphasized the importance of reclaiming that land," Bomberry added. "A lot of people who have come of age since then are now in a position to try to achieve that dream."

UCLA law professor Carole Goldberg would add, however, that it can be a costly dream.

"On one hand, the tribes are buying property with revenue provided by non-Indians, which seems to mitigate some of the unjustness of it all," she said. "But sellers know they have a unique commodity, and may raise prices dramatically to take advantage of the value that contiguous land has for Native Americans."

In many cases, the tribes aim to eventually take the acquired property into trust, a lengthy process that would ultimately insulate it from state and local laws by making it a part of their sovereign territory. Sometimes, however, tribal elders say, they are simply content to own the land.

In Northern California, the Wintun Indians have acquired thousands of acres of farmland. The Jackson Rancheria Band of Miwuk Indians, also in Northern California, took into trust 1,000 contiguous acres a year ago. In Temecula, the Pechanga Band of Luiseño Mission Indians recently bought a ranch surrounding one of the oldest oak trees in the United States.

In northern San Diego County, three buffalo now roam on a cattle ranch bought earlier this year by the Pala Band of Mission Indians. In Palm Springs, the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians has purchased wilderness land in the surrounding mountains. In Indio, the Cabazon Band of Mission Indians is looking into buying a network of sandstone gorges it regards as sacred.

"Being able to buy a place like this and put it under tribal protection," said Cabazon tribal elder Joe Benitez, "is a side of Indian gaming most people, including elected officials, know nothing about."

The Morongo tribe says it recently purchased all of the available private property in Millard Canyon simply so that its 1,000 tribal members can traverse it with their kin and their memories.

The tribe does not intend to wipe out the previous owner's fences and dead fruit orchards.

Striding along the canyon's dirt road in alligator skin boots, Lyons, 53, said, "This canyon and everything in it, including that rusting barbed-wire fence, tells our story."

The Morongo tribe's history is not unlike that of many in Southern California with successful casinos.

When its reservation was established in 1877, it had no significant resources beyond sand and gravel. In the 1960s, tribal members were still living in dilapidated trailers, surviving on federal subsidies and fetching water from open ditches.

Non-Indians for decades used the tribe's barren homeland as a dumping ground for garbage and waste ranging from lawn trimmings to toxic chemicals.

All that changed with the advent of reservation gambling in 1983. Within 10 years, the tribe was awash in cash, having eliminated the last welfare case on its 32,000-acre reservation.

A few miles south of Millard Canyon rises the latest symbol of Morongo determination: a 23-story, $250-million casino-resort hotel expected to open next year. The complex will stand 10 stories higher than the Riverside County Administration Center and is expected to generate about $2.8 billion in economic benefits for the Inland Empire over the next five years.

In the meantime, tribal planner Tom Linton continues to investigate possible land acquisitions. "We recently bought a 45-acre ranch inside the reservation borders," he said, "and 280 acres adjacent to the freeway, which had been sold in the late 1950s by a tribal family in desperate need of money.

"Not everything we buy will be developed," Linton said. "Some will be left just the way it is."

That kind of talk "may not sound logical to some non-Indians," acknowledged tribal attorney Howard Dickstein. "But in many cases, these land acquisitions are attempts to fulfill an emotional promise handed down for generations: If there is any way possible, we will get our land back."

George Costa, an agricultural advisor to the 40-member Wintun Indians in Colusa, about 75 miles north of Sacramento, would not argue with that.

"We don't know how long gaming will be here, but our members' grandparents were farmers; they have farming in their blood," he said. "For that reason, over the past eight years, we've purchased more than 3,500 acres of farmland, all within four miles of the reservation.

"The casino profits bought the agricultural property," he said, "but the tribe's new high-tech rice, alfalfa and walnut farms are already paying their own way."

The Pechanga Indians, who have a history that predates Spanish and Anglo arrivals by thousands of years, have bought roughly 1,000 acres in Temecula, said tribal spokesman Russell "Butch" Murphy. That includes a 750-acre spread — crowned by a very old 96-foot-high oak with limbs that spread 590 feet in circumference — that was taken into trust last May.

"It took a major struggle with a company that wanted to put high-power lines through that ranch before we could take it into trust," Murphy said. "Now that it's ours, it will remain as it was when we purchased it: open land."

For Cabazon Indian tribal elder Benitez, piecing together the full story of his people means gaining control of federally controlled canyon lands etched into the desert by flash floods and earthquakes.

On a recent weekday, the bleak terrain surrounding the canyons near Mecca, which have been used for centuries by Native Americans for spiritual gatherings, was strewn with evidence of urban encroachment: discarded couches, tires, televisions, carpeting and glass.

In the gorges, however, is a quiet, primeval world of ironwood and smoke trees, sheer 1,000-foot-high walls that change color by the minute from pink to gray, and ravens that call from towering cliffs.

Gazing up at a hawk soaring silently overhead, Benitez said, "I've been coming here since I was 6 years old. My mother, aunts and uncles — and their parents — came here to refresh their connection with Mother Earth over a camp-out, with songs and maybe a sweat lodge.

"Indian families still come to this canyon just to sit and think," he said. "It's a sacred place. We'd like to protect it."
____________________________________

The Kevin41s, the Norlands, the Nmaginates, the Kweli4Reals, the no connection to Black America misleading no good to the best interest of Black people defending illegal immigrants reject from his own community liberal Caucasian ricardomaths, etc., can trade insults between themselves, you, or I, should they so choose, but the fact remains, the Black community is the most regressive, destructive, counter-productive community in the U.S., to which the entire Black community can not escape shouldering the responsibility for much of the blame.

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 20, 2003 at 09:32 PM.]

I started a new thread with this topic at another site. Take a look at this response:

*note to Kevin - this is a quote from a poster at another site - not my words - lol *

"Reading through it I found some problems with the methodology used. They used matched pairs by the same race and not different race allowing for issues of ability to communicate and etc in instances and the bigger issue was they had them apply for specific jobs with those matched pairs that way instead of opposite pairs. With a small study like this, failing to have black/white pairing and alternating who applied first can have a huge impact.

The results are interesting though and need more studies done but it doesn't bode well. Also doing white coller and not just entry level jobs for recent HS grads would be something to be checked in to since HS listed could be a serious factor. The one listing a HS with a great reputation compared to someone with a school who's reputation is for putting out students that can't read or add would be a problem."

http://pub126.ezboard.com/fgroundzerointheculturalwarfrm1.showMessage?topicID=1426.topic

I'm too tired to respond to this tonight in that thread. This poster seems to feel that because all 4 candidates were not sent to the same interviews - the extra findings are irrelevant.

But please feel free to jump in there. If you're bored with beating up on myrllyn - there is plenty of fresh meat in there. lol

VDiamond,

I did not think those were your words, okay?

I do not feel like explaining to them how variables are assesed to not have any effect on a study before it is conducted. They are called confounding variables and you account for them up front. You also mention similar things in your assumptions section, but you have to justify why they are not significant enough to change the outcome of the study. I always wondered what make people think they can casually dismiss what people who were smarter than them in school took an extra
8-12 years AFTER high school to learn......that is really an example of ego run amuck.......

Well Kevin41,

"I know after you do your homework, i'll see Merv Dymally getting his azz lead to the borders getting kicked the hell out of amerikkka............correct?" by Kevin41

Would it make any difference? Hell no, because as reality would have it Black people, especially as it applies to the Black middle class, in that "educated fool", prefer to praise misfits, illegal immigrants, criminals, treasonous individuals, etc. Proof of the pudding the same no good sleazy individuals are re-elected or elected time and time again. Your analysis is way off base and worthless. No good illegal immigrant serving foreign interests at the expense of his constituency Merv Dymally should be serving prison time, and should deportation be necessary so be it! As usual, the Black community being the perverted community that it is, incarcerates the truly innocent, and provides a safety net with no possibility of incarceration, stiff fines, and/or both as it applies to the truly criminal in a no good Merv Dymally, etc. Better than 50 percent of the Black male population have felony jail records, to which many of them are in fact undeserving of such a dishonor, while the no good criminals in a Merv Dymally, or using false pretences to hold elected office 2nd District Los Angeles County Supervisor Yvonne "Brentwood" Burke, walk free, many thanks to the unintelligent voters of Black America.

...but I presume elected officials are not bound to respect the law, or pay for criminal wrongdoing like that everyday citizen!

"I've given you what you need. It's in your hands, now. Please let us know how things turn out, OK?" by ricardomath

Your input is not relevant, because again you have no connection to the Black community. This being said, you will be ignored! Besides, it is typical for a liberal Caucasian Democrat to defend the no good Merv Dymally's, the Brentwood Burkes, etc., because the liberal Caucasian community receives undeserved gratuities at the expense of the Black community. Black America, it is your choice. You can continue to allow liberal Caucasians, to control the Black community through Black America's own sleazy treasonous elected officials, in a no good disgraceful treasonous Merv Dymally, a using false pretenses to hold elected office representing outside special interests 2nd District Los Angeles County Supervisor "Brentwood" Burke, etc., and it is guaranteed that the Black community will continue to remain in bondage. This being said the only bondage that exists in the year 2003, is the self inflicted bondage that Black people place on each other, by not taking control of our own community, in the interest of controlling our own destiny!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

P.S.

"Yeah LOFTY.....PROVE that he is illegal and I can read how you were a hero in eradicating black illegal immigrant sleeze out of our glorius azz country........" by the pompous Kevin41

You still don't get. Merv Dymally is not the one and only misfit. The reality of it indicts the entire Black elected political structure. Black people can continue to be that sleeping community as it has been, but our community is on the verge of extinction, namely because of a failing leadership!

Is it that this concentration is on Merv, because you have no defense for the rest of them? Mind you, Merv has no defense for his treasonous actions, because Merv Dymally should have been removed from elected office years ago!

In any other community treason would be a criminal offense. But yes, as applied to Black America, anything disgraceful grows or receives commendation!

Lofton,

quit trying to skirt the issue because you do not know what the f-k you are talking about. Me concentrating on anyone is not the issue...the issue is that you claimed someone was not a US citizen and now you cannot substantiate it.

Here is a excerpt from an article I found in my journal....if we can get that black sleaze you speak of with the program..we'll be okay. Hopefully you'll see this side of your people (if you are not white, they are) and not spew such poison............


****The Wide Variations in the Black-White Higher Education Gap in America's Largest Cities

Compared to blacks in other cities, African Americans in San Francisco and Los Angeles are a highly educated group. In fact, African Americans in Los Angeles are almost as likely as whites in the city to hold a college degree. This result is undoubtedly due to California's strong commitment over the past 30 years to public higher education for people of all economic and ethnic groups.
Here are the high school and college completion records in a number of America's largest cities.

Well Kevin41,

Seeing is believing. So far the fruits of all this educational ability leave every other community but the Black community in sound economic standing.

"quit trying to skirt the issue because you do not know what the f-k you are talking about. Me concentrating on anyone is not the issue...the issue is that you claimed someone was not a US citizen and now you cannot substantiate it.

Here is a excerpt from an article I found in my journal....if we can get that black sleaze you speak of with the program..we'll be okay. Hopefully you'll see this side of your people (if you are not white, they are) and not spew such poison............


****The Wide Variations in the Black-White Higher Education Gap in America's Largest Cities

Compared to blacks in other cities, African Americans in San Francisco and Los Angeles are a highly educated group. In fact, African Americans in Los Angeles are almost as likely as whites in the city to hold a college degree. This result is undoubtedly due to California's strong commitment over the past 30 years to public higher education for people of all economic and ethnic groups.

Here are the high school and college completion records in a number of America's largest cities." by Kevin41

The only individual ducking the issue is you. As for the above diatribe, it is still meaningless to those who see reality for what it is.

In spite of all that educational background...so called educational expertise, Black people in Los Angeles, Oakland, Compton, South Central Los Angeles, Inglewood, Detroit, Baltimore, continue to be the most economically deprived, misrepresented, void of competent representation, welfare based, breaking up the Black family structure for profit, community in the United States of America.

Heck, many Black people who hold that University degree use their education expertise to deceive their own community into thinking that they stand for something while they bend over backwards to steal, look out for personal friends, practice nepotism, etc. It is certain that the masses, as applied to those who remain in the inner-city, as applied to the under-class, do not share your views.

The viewpoint would be more in line with the reality that I speak of, as it pertains to no good treasonous illegal immigrant Merv Dymally, other elected officials, preachers, and/or many so-called educated of our community, who truly have done more harm to the Black community out of sleaze, incompetence, greed, and that don't care as long as I get mine attitude, than all the years of "Jim Crowe".

Just look at Merv Dymally, with all his educational expertise, he serves foreign interests, at the expense of his constituency in South Central Los Angeles, Compton, etc. Either way, whether Merv Dymally is or is not a citizen, the fact remains that this individual is treasonous, and should have been ejected from political office years ago.

Those who keep this sleaze, this misfit set in elected office continue to be the so-called educated class, because more so than not, the indigent, the under-class are not the largest block of eligible Black voters in the the community of South Central Los Angeles Compton, Inglewood, West Adams, Jefferson Park, Ladera Heights, Winsor Hills, Fox Hills, Baldwin Hills, etc.

So much for all that educational expertise, when better than 50 percent of the Black male population are in prison, the percentage being even greater within the communities of Los Angeles, Compton, Oakland, etc. May as well shred or trash that university degree, because it is truly worthless considering the reality of it, when those who fit the description use their educational expertise to the detriment of the Black community!

Sincerely,

Michael Lofton

[This message was edited by Lofton on October 21, 2003 at 05:45 AM.]

quote:

---

no good treasonous illegal immigrant Merv Dymally

---

Don't come whining to us. Get off your duff and pick up the phone. Do something, Lofton!

http://www.naawp.com/report_illegal_immigration.htm

Illegal, noun: A term used by the descendents of European Immigrants to refer to descendants of Native Americans Plowshares Actions The Nuclear Resister School of the Americas Watch

Cauca, Colombia

quote:

---

Originally posted by vdiamond:
I started a new thread with this topic at another site.

But please feel free to jump in there. If you're bored with beating up on myrllyn - there is plenty of fresh meat in there. lol

---

I left something over there... But like KEVIN 41 I don't feel like peeling through their layers and layers of DENIAL.

I can talk to you about it...

And anyone that's not just gonna make up objections on the fly no matter how many times and ways you show that their concerns are controlled for.