I'd like to pose this question.

Aside from the (necessary) issues of monetary reparation, if the whole of the US government publicly apologized to the African American public for its historic abuses and wrongs... would the apology be accepted?

Would an apology be seen as purely spurious?

If so, what kind of apology could ever be acceptable? And delivered by whom?

Or, if it was seen as genuine, would the apology be publicly acknowledged and accepted? And if so, who would be seen as an adequate representative (or is that an impossible task in itself???) of the African American community to accept that apology?

Save the apologies. Dish out the cash and the land and disappear. JMHO.

So an apology isn't important?

IMO - an apology is only meaningful to the degree that there is something substantial that backs it up. Anyone can say the words. They ring hollow, however, unless there is something that expresses that sorrow - that brings it to life and demonstrates a willingness to make amends/to atone/to repair the wrongs.

Thanks for the respectful responses.

Can I ask, what to you, is "meaningful" ?

quote:

So an apology isn't important?

Not to me. Skip the debating and drafting of the apology and get about the business of repairing. And I'm not sure any apology would be beneficial, either.

I think that there are unfortunately some people who would lose some of their fire if we ever got an apology and start thinking "Well, that's good enough. Let me hurry up and get back to lickin' boots."

quote:

Originally posted by Frenchy:

quote:

So an apology isn't important?

Not to me. Skip the debating and drafting of the apology and get about the business of repairing. And I'm not sure any apology would be beneficial, either.

I think that there are unfortunately some people who would lose some of their fire if we ever got an apology and start thinking "Well, that's good enough. Let me hurry up and get back to lickin' boots."

OK I hear ya. In that case, what do you think would be beneficial?

Cash, land, and to be left alone

OK gurl... how much ca$h, how much land (and what would you do with it) and left alone, how so?

[I'm asking all of this also in relation to the Stolen Generation here. I wish our government would apologize - I'm sure it's for some legal/negligence reason that they won't.]

But what is important is what people want.

quote:

OK gurl... how much ca$h, how much land (and what would you do with it) and left alone, how so?

Well, I think some of those questions should be left to people smarter than I. As for left alone, I mean simply without any interference from white society.

quote:

I'm asking all of this also in relation to the Stolen Generation here. I wish our government would apologize - I'm sure it's for some legal/negligence reason that they won't.

It might be more beneficial to try to get in touch with some Native Americans, who's experiences would more closely resemble Australia's Aboriginals. I know that the Apache tribes also had children removed by the US government and put up for adoption. I'm sure there were others. I can imagine the Native American's/Native Australian's list of demands would be somewhat different from what Black people want.

quote:

Aside from the (necessary) issues of monetary reparation... would the apology be accepted?

As we see, the consensus is that there is No Aside... My question, though, is why would someone genuinely sorry even worry about the "acceptance" of their apology if it is sincere and they are so moved to apologize. An apology does just as much, if not more, for the Apologizer than it does for the person apologized to.

As far as representatives in such an exchange, unless this will be one of the first installments of some type of government-to-government relations there is no reason (as well as no one "qualified") for any one African-American to "accept" an apology. Naturally I think the President of the US qualifies as some who should give an apology. It should go without saying that Bush wouldn't be credible in that regard. He had his opportunity but passed it up...

And as far as "what kind of apology"... Well, nothing says I'm sorry like the list Frenchy made. And, obviously, I listed yet another one which might serve as a definitive way for us to be "left alone" if we so choose, however that may be possible and to whatever extent it is.

I make the simple parallel that Native Americans were Dispossed Of Their Land. Likewise, Africans/African-Americans too. The only thing different overall is that Africans/African-Americans were taken from theirs; Native Americans had theirs taken from them (though the same holds true to a lesser extent for African-Americans in the contorted American sense of "landownership".)

Here are some things already listed in this forum that address your question(s) or my comments in a little more detail:

[1] $5 to $24 trillion and counting...

[2] Torn From Their Land

[3] Give Blacks The Reparations Indians Already Received...

quote:

Naturally I think the President of the US qualifies as some who should give an apology. It should go without saying that Bush wouldn't be credible in that regard. He had his opportunity but passed it up...

HUH? "Had his opportunity and passed it up"? Can you elaborate?

Also- how many other Presidents have had the "opportunity and passed it up", and who do you think would have been credible in this regard?

Marty, ALL US Presidents had their opportunity. Bush really only figures into what I said because he currently holds the seat. He also would, besides being incompetent, be someone who wouldn't be able to pull off such an apology. Frankly, he wouldn't be believeable.

His Opportunity: http://www.state.gov/p/af/rls/rm/22274.htm

The thing that would make it hard to believe his sincerity, besides not coming forth with REPARATIONS:
Colorblind in One Eye:
The selective colorblindness of the Bush approach to affirmative action.


Like I said... GOES WITHOUT SAYING...

Clinton or perhaps Jimmy Carter would have been believeable. Off the top of my head, a Republican like Jack Kemp, had he been president, would have been believeable and communicated a sincerity that would have sounded like it wasn't just a political speech written because it was expedient, etc.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Nmaginate,

I'm thinking it would be hard to have a meaningful apology considering no one alive had slaves or were slaves. I say save the money and let's continue to do things for ourselves. the past is the past and once we start understanding that we can arise.

The past still weighs heavily on our current situation (just as our former leaders have a continued impact on what we are able to do today). You cannot simply forget it. You will never see Jewish people encouraging each other to just forget about The Holocaust. You have to remember so NEVER AGAIN do we see those things happen again.

I knew this was going to go this way.

In the end, the question is always, 'How much?'

The number has been calculated (simply on the basis of 'bad labor contract', and offered years ago.

This is not an issue that will get muddied with 'pain and suffering'. The legitimate question would be, 'How to you pay for that?"

An apology does absolutely nothing for African America.

Exactly what would America be 'sorry' for??

Cash works best.

Other assets may be useful.

Clean and simply.

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:

The legitimate question would be, 'How to you pay for that?"

It's funny how America never asks this questions of things it wants to do - only those it opposes.

quote:

Originally posted by MBM:

quote:

Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:

The legitimate question would be, 'How to you pay for that?"

It's funny how America never asks this questions of things it wants to do - only those it opposes.

It is the challenge to the powerless.

It has a variation that says, 'And just do you propose that be done that.

There was a time when the consideration of an apology seemed significant. The temerity of the thought was seen as an achievement.

It took generations to grow beyond the intimidation of that idea.

Money is what works.

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Originally posted by MBM:

It's funny how America never asks this questions of things it wants to do - only those it opposes.

We just came up with almost $11 Billion dollars for initial Katrina aid and Bush is pushing through another $40 Billion. We spend money first and come up with funding later. Reparations can certainly be paid out just the same. Are we supposed to wait for a massive surplus of government money before we have the "audacity" to ask about reparations??

Frenchy... don't you know the storm that caused the damage Reparations are set to address has long since passed.

Why don't you take the hint from SHERLOCKE HOLMES and recognize that there are No Living Slaves and No Living Slavemasters... I mean, what's your problem with accepting such sure genius? Are you anti-intellectual or something?

I know that takes a lot of thinking (to ponder on how no slaves are alive, etc.)... but you could at least try.

And, no... even if the US didn't do a damn thing for the Katrina victims... some 100 or 200 years from now when they're all dead, nothing can be said about the unrepaired damage left after that storm. Dead people can't be held accountable even if the government lives.

Don't you know that? lol