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A1 |
sista EbRo said:
The majority of your post here has been about Cosby ... yet you find discussion about your active involvement in your community as silly and unworthy of discussion. You reluctance to talk about the work you do, keeps information which would probably be beneficial to other people in other places locked inside yourself. While you're all in favor of sharing your opinion regarding Cosby's "imbalance", you do not share with others how, when, and where they could go to offer their time and assistance in the communities they live in, how to bring such groups together and what do you do that helps another person in need. A couple of points and then i'm out. 1. EbRo, if you work in a social services type background, or do community level work through your church, or some other front-lines, hands-on organization, I know, it's very easy to think that is THE WORK, and THE ONLY WORK THAT MATTERS. It is not the only work that matters in black america. It's really a sort of anti-intellectualism. Of course feeding black babies, and finding housing for black poor, and counseling black victims of violence IS important. That goes without saying, but I feel that when we relegate the discussion and analysis of other social phenomena that accompany the condition of being black to "focusing on white people" we miss the point, the boat, and the show. There is more than 1 type of "work" to be done. Black America benefits when we have people/organizations focused on distributing condoms, feeding the hungry, tending to the sick as well as black people/organizations who discuss, analyse, and research politics, history, religion, law, Medicine. I would only remind that neither Malcolm, nor Martin, nor Mandela nor any Powerful Sista was strictly about the grassroots aspects. There is a powerful intellectual curiosity, a powerful intellectual foundation to all of their arguments. Particularly with Malcolm and Martin, you can see and hear the exercise of logic and analysis in their speeches, though couched in religious terms. They even analyzed themselves. Go back and read em again. a socialworker by trade, I am "grassroots ilk", meaning a great deal of my career and personal time has been spent doing grassroots stuff in organizations that feed, clothe, shelter, counsel, refer, protest,drive, etc. That is good, but not enough. I need Nmag, Oshun, MBM, Shango, Kalliqa, Kweli, Vox, HB, Rowe, et al to parse out, and analyse the ramifications, of not only "our dysfunctionality" but EVERYTHING, and how it works, and how it should work, and how it all fits together and how it effects BLACK PEOPLE or not. I'm rambling I know, but it seems short sighted to assert that black thought must be limited to grassroots activity(which again, i am not knocking) We need the best and brightest black minds to have a presence and to have an expertise in Politics, Law, Sociology, Medicine, Science, Religion, History, Education, etc. Analysis is part and parcel. If bill cosby, negrospiritual, juan williams, tavis smiley, Juwanza Kunjufu, or bell hooks asserts a theory about black life, then we ought to be willing to have that theory thoroughly tested, deconstructed, and analyzed by black consciousness to see if it stands up (useful) or if it needs to be discarded (harmful). We are done a disservice when analysis and intellectual endeavour within black america is equated with "focusing on white people". Intellectual endeavour benefit our minds, reinforces our need for unity and underscores our common plight.
When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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A1 |
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Tasmanian Angel |
NS ... after reading your post, it's pretty clear that you have not understood what I am trying to say!
 But that's okay .. because, believe it or not, what you have just said and my point are not all that different. Basically, we are saying the same thing in two different ways. And, as such, I agree with your above POV (as you have stated it) ... even if you can not agree (as I have stated it) with mine.That's just the way the ball bounces, I guess. BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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A1 |
For real though? I thought I did. I did not weigh in on the Cosby post in P&I, but I followed it with interest. I got the impression that you and some others felt that 1. Cosby is unfairly criticised 2. Cosby's current persona/activities are relevant to the black community 3. Placing cosby's comments within the socio-political context of white supremacy which pervades life for Africans all around the world, but specifically in USA is tantamount to "focusing on white people" 4. The full context of Cosby et al comments should not be analyzed by black intellectuals because it is a waste of time and doing grassroots community level things are the only important work. (i.e. mentoring kids, neighborhood watch, handing out condoms to reduce the pregnancy and HIV rate, getting out the vote, finding jobs, etc) I'll grant that these are assumptions based on the responses in that and this thread. Tell me, which ones are incorrect? When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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A1 |
Not quite sure I'm following you. Say a hot button political issue arises that prompts some legislation. A BLACK discussion must ensue: Is this issue true? Is this issue necessary? How did this issue occur? Who are the major players? How does this effect Africans? Are the masses aware? What will this look like in BLack communities? For Black women? Black men? Black children? What steps will Africans need to take? Can this be noted and ignored? Should this be protested? What organizations and publications are already dealing with it? While this may be "in relation to them" it is ultimately about Black Life. Why would we not focus on it? When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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Tasmanian Angel |
With all due respect, Negrospiritual ... If you will notice, my participation in the Cosby thread was extremely limited. Particularly because it was (yet another) Cosby thread!  I can tell you that very little that I have been trying to say is intricately tied to Cosby. I mentioned his name once at the end of my post, merely as a 'comparison factor'. Quite frankly, I am sick to death of talking about Bill Cosby.  I have never once said what you have written as your #4 ... which is why I previously said that you obviously don't understand the point I have been trying to make! Never once have I said that analytical conversation was unnecessary or a waste of time. I have, however, said that more conversation about grassroots movements need to be had in order to balance things our and broaden our horizons. We seem to be perpetually stuck in 'Cosby-type' conversations.  And I have highly suggested that we need to start discussing something else.I'm not really sure how to explain to you what it is you're asking me ... and unless such a discussion can take place without the name of Bill Cosby being brought into it ... I'm sorry, but I'm really not interested in even trying to do so. My whole point is that I believe it would be more beneficial to us as a community and as a discussion body if we could find away to move on ... move past this circular conversation wheel we continuously ride. So, me jumping on it to answer your inquires would be the epitome of unproductive. BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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A1 |
Yes, clarity if definitely needed.
I think we know ourselves in terms of how we relate to each other well enough. I do know, however, that some people don't really know themselves, as individuals, and really don't want to be honest with themselves about why they feel the way they do, etc., etc. |
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A1 |
perhaps I've read more into it than I should have, being a vibe-feeler and all  , but when ebony and others recoil at the thought of critique for cosby, pretend not to see the difference in a farrakhan vs. cosby message, point out things like pregnancy rate, prison rate, joblessness, drugs etc, as evidence of black folks effing up while at the same time rejecting the need to look at the context, and throwing in a pinch of "if you sitting round talking you ain't doing" rhetoric...seems a bit anti-intellectual or a bit something i don't know what, but it strikes me weirdly. Perhaps anti-intellectual isn't the right descriptor. When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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A1 |
LOL @ "epitome of unproductive" Girl, no u didn't!  you multiparagraph writing, 10,000 post accumulating post-beast you!  *grasping sides*  ok but for real though...I really wanna understand.What is a cosby-type conversation? Where are we stuck? and why do we need to move on? if u would be so kind...i would be ever so appreciative, and it would help me understand this thread better toodles  When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard or welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid. So it is better to speak Audre Lord |
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A1 |
Ebony, it really didn't make any sense erasing my one particular post of mine when NS quoted it in its entirety.
And anyone can go back and look at your initial post and see how your tune has changed over the course of this thread. NS laughs in your face and you're worried about erasing my post. 
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Tasmanian Angel |
I don't like you, Nmaginate.
So erasing your posts don't have to make sense. I get a whole lot of pleasure out of doing it! And ... NS's post isn't safe either. Her desire/decision to quote you may just get it erased as well. In fact, it's only because I like and respect her that I've allowed it to stayed up this long.
BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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A1 |
I'll take that criticism to an extent. The reason I don't accept it completely is because I post issues near and dear to my heart and work CONSTANTLY... and push the local, orgnaizational stuff like crazy in many a thread. Also, I have never posted a topic about Cosby, Black neo-cons ect. SO your openning statement was completely false. Yes, the topic was brought up so I commented on it. I joined in on a thread that had some obvious contradictions IMO. Nmag even criticized me for 'not doing the usual' and bringing up the local orgs that are dealing with particular issues. Recently, I have been attacked(who the cap fit's let them wear it!) as 'bragging' and 'name dropping' when I talk of my activities... so I find it interesting that now I am getting criticized for not doing so. I am going to post about the Cuban 5, but because I just returned from Cuba, and have now been hosting members of the Guinea Bassau brigade that I went with, as well as getting back into the organizational swing of things, I've been, shall we say a 'little too busy'. Also, on another note. I like what NS had to say. In most of my orgnaizational work I see the biggest change/effect on the youth and the unconscious folk when they are exposed to INFORMATION that helps them overstand the way we got into the shituation we are in, and how we as a people, can get out of it. We as a people suffer from a lack in the immaterial as much, if not more so, than we do in the material(particularly in this country). The immaterial is what directs our actions with the material resources we have access too. Yes, the grassroots effort is important, and there are many organizations(many that I have mentioned) to be involved with. From what I have read, many folks on this site are already 'active'... and for me, sharpenning the immaterial is what this particular site is about. HB, I don't think my work is merely local or irrelevent, but I do think that I discuss it enough here that if people were truly interested in further detail, they would probe me a bit. I assumed that most people were active in some sense of the word on this site, and I would never want to come off as though I was preachig to the choir, or thought I was the only one 'doing something'. If someone posts something on a thread that I find to be a 'weird' perspetive, my(or anyone elses) response to it should not be labelled 'concentrating on the wrong thing, or 'paying attention to white folks'. That's ridiculous. Egungun, Egungun ni t'aiye ati jo! Ancestos, Ancestors come to earth and dance! "I'm sick of the war and the civilization that created it. Let's look to our dreams, and the magical; to the creations of the so-called primitive peoples for new inspirations." - Jaques Vache and Andre Breton "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." -John Maynard "You know that in our country there were even matriarchal societies where women were the most important element. On the Bijagos islands they had queens. They were not queens because they were the daughters of kings. They had queens succeeding queens. The religious leaders were women too..." -- Amilcar Cabral, Return to the Source, 1973    |
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A1 |
 Egungun, Egungun ni t'aiye ati jo! Ancestos, Ancestors come to earth and dance! "I'm sick of the war and the civilization that created it. Let's look to our dreams, and the magical; to the creations of the so-called primitive peoples for new inspirations." - Jaques Vache and Andre Breton "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." -John Maynard "You know that in our country there were even matriarchal societies where women were the most important element. On the Bijagos islands they had queens. They were not queens because they were the daughters of kings. They had queens succeeding queens. The religious leaders were women too..." -- Amilcar Cabral, Return to the Source, 1973 |
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A1 |
Sister, I didn't criticize you. I made an observation and told you about my expectation. You speak with an authority and experience most don't because of the orgs you've personally been involved in or have knowledge of.
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Tasmanian Angel |
Okay, OA. But I never said you did. If you are referring to this:
This comment was made in response to the post you had just previously made ... where Cosby was a reference in all but one paragraph in all that you wrote! I have never said anything about you starting any such posts. Ever. Obviously, there was a mistake made in the translation .. this is a message board and things like that happen. But please don't pull an Nmag on me and blast me for things I didn't even say! I get enough of that from him to last a lifetime! I do appreciate your participation .. and as with NegroSpiritual, I believe we can (and probably should) just leave this at a failure to effectively communicate and understand each other and go from there. We have bigger fish to fry. BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE. Before there was ANY history, there was BLACK history. |
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