Hmm, very interesting... Apparently, going from your video, the Bible condones servitude, but definitely not slavery...especially racialized chattel slavery. Now THAT, I didn't know.

Whew, white folks have one helluva karma waiting for them, for believing that justification of chattel slavery.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Huey,

"There are two things that are infinite, human stupidity and the universe...and I'm not too sure about the universe."
--Albert Einstein

quote:

Originally posted by Huey:
Hmm, very interesting... Apparently, going from your video, the Bible condones servitude, but definitely not slavery...especially racialized chattel slavery.

Whew, white folks have one helluva karma waiting for them.

I don't understand how they could have justify slavery of others in the first place which is mind boggling to me. Servitude I understand. I am still shaking my head about the slavery part...unless they truly didn't read the Bible or picked and choose. lol

servitude:

• the state of being a slave or completely subject to someone more powerful.

• archaic Law the subjection of property to an easement.

• A state of subjection to an owner or master.

• Lack of personal freedom, as to act as one chooses.

Slave--[Origin: 1250–1300; ME sclave < ML sclāvus [masc.), sclāva [fem.) slave, special use of Sclāvus Slav, so called because Slavs were commonly enslaved in the early Middle Ages; see Slav]

Slav--[Origin: 1350–1400; < ML Slāvus, var. of Sclāvus, akin to LGk Sklábos < a Slavic ethnonym, perh. orig. a name for all Slavic tribes [cf. Slovak, Slovene, ORuss Slověně an East Slavic tribe); r. ME Sclave < ML Sclāvus]

quote:

Originally posted by Willywill3:
Servitude I understand. I am still shaking my head about the slavery part...unless they truly didn't read the Bible or picked and choose. lol

In any event, you find the word slave in the helio biblio.

Don't confuse european slavery (the brand most in amerikkka are familiar with) with other cultural means/practices of slavery.

Some of what you've read were 'rules' more or less, as to how to treat your slavs. Property.

Slavery is slavery. Servitude, not much different.

quote:

Originally posted by Raptor:

quote:

Originally posted by Willywill3:
Servitude I understand. I am still shaking my head about the slavery part...unless they truly didn't read the Bible or picked and choose. lol

In any event, you find the word slave in the helio biblio.

Don't confuse european slavery (the brand most in amerikkka are familiar with) with other cultural means/practices of slavery.

Some of what you've read were 'rules' more or less, as to how to treat your slavs. Property.

Slavery is slavery. Servitude, not much different.

If one is a literalist, then the answer is an emphatic yes, the Bible condones slavery. In many English Bibles, the word servant is frequently used in the New Testament, but the Greek or Aramaic that is translated means slave.

the bible condones everything

quote:

Originally posted by Raptor:

quote:

Originally posted by Willywill3:
Servitude I understand. I am still shaking my head about the slavery part...unless they truly didn't read the Bible or picked and choose. lol

In any event, you find the word slave in the helio biblio.

Don't confuse european slavery (the brand most in amerikkka are familiar with) with other cultural means/practices of slavery.

Some of what you've read were 'rules' more or less, as to how to treat your slavs. Property.

Slavery is slavery. Servitude, not much different.

I see your point about the European Slavery, we all know about that indeed. Though in Jewish society they were still paid and punish to a certain degree, even the masters would face penalties themselves. So what made Europeans believe it was "ok" to enslave Blacks and other cultures if the Bible forbid their form of enslavement? Because there is really no justification in the Bible and the obvious with out it. Is it just because they could do so? Though I bet this is a obvious answer...(because they thought and some still do to this day think they rule the world...lol. Sad)

quote:

Though in Jewish society they were still paid and punish to a certain degree, even the masters would face penalties themselves

...Yeah, there were humane slavers.

quote:

So what made Europeans believe it was "ok" to enslave Blacks and other cultures if the Bible forbid their form of enslavement?

The rationale for slavery was that the afrikan was being brought under the guidance of chistendom and that they would eventually recieve its blessings.

quote:

Because there is really no justification in the Bible

Hypothetically speaking, if there is no justification in the bible, the fact is there isn't any condemnation of slavery in the bible.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raptor,

>>><<<<>>>><<<<>>>><<
"Study the people who took you out of history. Then you'll understand -your history."
"For your survival, draw on the intellectual heritage of the whole world, but always start with your own intellectual heitage". --Dr. John Henrik Clarke

"Revenge knows few limits when the privileged and powerful are subjected to the kind of terror they regularly mete out to their victims." --Noam Chomsky

"Sure there are a few good whites just as much as there are a few bad Blacks. However what we are concerned here with is group attitudes and group politics. The exception does not make a lie or the rule - it merely substantiates it." --Steve Biko

quote:

Originally posted by Raptor:

quote:

Though in Jewish society they were still paid and punish to a certain degree, even the masters would face penalties themselves

...Yeah, there were humane slavers.

quote:

So what made Europeans believe it was "ok" to enslave Blacks and other cultures if the Bible forbid their form of enslavement?

The rationale for slavery was that the afrikan was being brought under the guidance of chistendom and that they would eventually recieve its blessings.

quote:

Because there is really no justification in the Bible

Hypothetically speaking, if there is no justification in the bible, the fact is there isn't any condemnation of slavery in the bible.

Long story short, Whites did whatever they want, even if it was some of their thought to save the souls of the Africans. I really don't see how enslaving them through their form of slavery would save African people. lol

quote:

I really don't see how enslaving them through their form of slavery would save African people. lol

"Study the people who took you out of history. Then you'll understand -your history."

quote:

Originally posted by Raptor:

quote:

I really don't see how enslaving them through their form of slavery would save African people. lol

"Study the people who took you out of history. Then you'll understand -your history."

I knew you would reply with that quote. lol

I really would like to see Bondage and the Bible.

"This newly released film by D. Eric Harmon reveals the bible's support for slavery and questions African American Christian's support for a book that condones holding humans in bondage."

People oppress to exploit. There were profits to be made, that's why Europeans enslaved Africans, the indigenous weren't resistant to their diseases and dropped off like flies.

People with power(currrently white patriarchal supremacy) will use(and warp) all areas of human activity to oppress...Why would religion be exempt?

quote:

Originally posted by Santana St. Cloud:
I really would like to see Bondage and the Bible.

"This newly released film by D. Eric Harmon reveals the bible's support for slavery and questions African American Christian's support for a book that condones holding humans in bondage."

for the link... sounds interesting...

yes and yes

quote:

People oppress to exploit. There were profits to be made, that's why Europeans enslaved Africans, the indigenous weren't resistant to their diseases and dropped off like flies.

People with power(currrently white patriarchal supremacy) will use(and warp) all areas of human activity to oppress...Why would religion be exempt?

Great statement

quote:

Originally posted by urbansun:

quote:

People oppress to exploit. There were profits to be made, that's why Europeans enslaved Africans, the indigenous weren't resistant to their diseases and dropped off like flies.

People with power(currrently white patriarchal supremacy) will use(and warp) all areas of human activity to oppress...Why would religion be exempt?

Great statement

Ok, but what about the empire under which X-ianity was birthed(Rome, a slave based economy)...and the subsequent fuedalist Europe it 'developed' under ect... I won't even go down the rabbit hole of much earlier power struggles under the Semetic paradigm...

When did white patriarchal supremacy begin the warping? What was done under the Chattle slavery and Jim Crow are just the latest version.

In my opinion there are two ways that you can look at it. In human history there have always been those in the minority who shape the opinion of the majority. There have always been those who use power in whatever form to shape the culture and society, which in then becomes reinforced as a dominant paradigm.

So from that scenario any religion, philosophy, or system has the ability to be manipulated and individuals subjugated to it many times even without their knowledge.

The greater question is can relativity ever be made non-relative. If you believe that there is no objective truth, then we will always be subject to the whims of human nature.

The fact that it is white patriarchy has been dominant in modern history is a function of history and technology. In a few hundred years it will most likely be chinese.

A better question is what should be done about it by us and what makes us right?

quote:

A better question is what should be done about it by us and what makes us right?

SInce we are talking about the bible.... How'bout re-writting the bible? Taking out that which 'mis-represents' the bible.

It's no secret... that the bible's been 'touched' through the centuries.

If I recall urbansun, you speaking about a particular episode in the bible that spoke to a people of their epoch. I say that to say this:

Lets take the book, put characters in it that look like us. "They" have 'mose' and 'jesus' we have malcom martin and tubman. "They" have their saints, we have folks from our community worthy of sainthood. "They" have their exodus, we have ours (tubman). Add women who are more than supporting actors to our book. Fannie lou, queen nzinga, etc...

The pages of life are still being written and no one book is the end all and be all of life.

We have more than enough experiences in our community past and present that can inspire and render us messages (for messages is what it's really about) to live by.Real life stories definately worthy of being inked into the pages of a book.

What I suggest isn't new or radical. And since 'christ' is a title and not a name, well then, we can annoint to 'christhood' who we believe is worthy of the title.

Anybody agree/disagree? Explain, if one chooses.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Raptor,

>>><<<<>>>><<<<>>>><<
"Study the people who took you out of history. Then you'll understand -your history."
"For your survival, draw on the intellectual heritage of the whole world, but always start with your own intellectual heitage". --Dr. John Henrik Clarke

"Revenge knows few limits when the privileged and powerful are subjected to the kind of terror they regularly mete out to their victims." --Noam Chomsky

"Sure there are a few good whites just as much as there are a few bad Blacks. However what we are concerned here with is group attitudes and group politics. The exception does not make a lie or the rule - it merely substantiates it." --Steve Biko

The Councel of Cincinnati, 2008.

...Or whatever city/state of our choosing.